Your own definition

[Colliam7]

Is a swim through a technical dive? Is a Cavern dive a technical dive?

No. Using a standard definition of a cavern dive, which you posted, you are no more than 130 ft from the surface (i.e. within the definition of the limits of recreational diving) and you therefore do have 'direct' access to the surface - whether the access is horizontal or vertical is not considered relevant, other than the space must also be within the 'light zone', which may limit the horizontal distance. The same is true for a 'swim through', unless the 'swim through' requires more than 130 ft from the mid-point of the 'swim through', to the surface, or part / all of the 'swim through' lies outside the light zone .

Technical is a subset of sport diving wherein overhead or decompression obligations would prevent direct access to the surface.

My emphasis added - you make a very good point!

 

[AfterDark]

To me diving is technical; it is a state of mind where the diver is cognizant of the physics, physiology and medical hazards of the dive being planned. The only thing depth and time does is increase the effects of these aspects of diving, nothing changes. It doesn’t matter to me if the dive is 20fsw or 100+fsw I treat it like my life depended on getting it right. Overhead? I dive in some places where the overhead is the boat traffic, I don’t even use a dive flag in those spots for fear of a boat running over it, to surface is more dangerous than staying down and solving whatever the issue is at hand.

 

[Aotus]

Cavern diving MAY absolutely be technical diving. There are the sort of sport/rec cavern dives and training, but there are also more advanced cavern courses that are much more like cave courses. The latter demands much if not all of the same preparation and attitude that a cave dive requires. This is a tricky area, because certifications from different agencies say the same thing, but are not the same. I've taken cavern from two different instructors and spoken at length with training heads from the two agencies and all agree there is cavern training, and then there is cavern training. One instructor explained to me that he tailors his course to the student such that those who just want to dive a few cenotes in Mexico get more of a "discover cavern" type experience, while those on track to explore more dangerous caverns and perhaps later caves get a much more intensive course. This is probably a source of confusion at a lot of levels that bridge the gap between rec/sport and tech diving, and to me smells of compromised standards for $$$...but that's a different thread. The take away is that the level of training, the attitude and mental and equipment preparation are the distinguishing characteristics at these transitional specialty levels.

 

[Redshift]

Nice definition. But to tighten it, Is a swim through a technical dive? Is a Cavern dive a technical dive?

Depends on the swim through and depends on the cavern. I don't want to be too strict on the definition and say that they are all technical dives... I understand that some of those dives are done by many divers without tech training and not in the appropriate gear. Some do have scares and some do die, but that also happens in other circumstances... But there certainly are caverns and swim throughs that require different skills.
And as Aotus said, there is cavern training and there is cavern training.

No. Using a standard definition of a cavern dive, which you posted, you are no more than 130 ft from the surface (i.e. within the definition of the limits of recreational diving) and you therefore do have 'direct' access to the surface - whether the access is horizontal or vertical is not considered relevant[/COLOR]

Can a diver kill the viz. on an OW site and not find the exit? How far can you swim horizontally while panicked because you are OOG before being able to go up? Compare it to a cesa... Definitely not the same thing as OW.

 

[PfcAJ]

Cesa? If no, tech.

 

[Nemrod]

Nice definition. But to tighten it, Is a swim through a technical dive? Is a Cavern dive a technical dive?

Good point, but, no, I would not consider a swim through to be technical. So when does a swim through (of a cave/overhang/wreck) become a cave dive or a wreck penetration? Well, one thought is when there is no surface light or again, where almost immediate return to the surface would not be possible. I know a swim through when I see it and I know a wreck penetration when I see it. Such as the recent case of my instabuddy, this year in the Keys aboard one of the typical Keys boats, the S.S. Nanny Diver, who would not allow me to solo, took off into the wreck. It was a penetration.

We had discussed this clearly before the dive which made the jackarse captain's eyes roll because I was being no fun and a stick in the mud, clearly stated I would not penetrate down hallways I could not see light out of. Insta buddies and mandatory guide went in, I did not. They got all p-----d at me because I did not stay with my buddies and the mandatory guide. It was a wreck penetration, I knew it when I saw it and the same thing had happened with me the previous year, different wreck and operator, and gave me quite a fright! I do not do technical diving unless I am rigged for it, planned for it and my buddies are as well.

So I do not know the words to couch the answer to your question, but I know it when I see it. I guess basically if I cannot make a free ascent, including the swim though, to the surface, then it would be technical. And it is a rule that we have all stretched and even broken just a little.

Since there are quite a few divers who cannot make a free ascent from any dive, all of their dives are technical, lol? Yeah, I know, I snuck that free ascent bit in there.

N

 

[DevonDiver]

Any dive where you cannot assure direct, unimpeded, no-stop access to the surface, within 40m/120ft linear (vertical+horizontal) distance of travel; at, or below, the maximum permissible ascent speed dictated by the decompression model in use....

AND/OR

Use of multiple gasses on a single dive, of which one or more gasses may be unbreathable for portions of a dive....and where the gasses choosen physiologically permit the dive to be conducted within safe narcotic, cns toxic and most efficient decompression parameters.

In short, any dive where immediately surfacing ceases to feature in a divers' list of survival options or where multiple gas switching means the diver carries potentially lethal mixtures within their planned depth range.

 

[NAM001]

Macan

I think the cavern example you gave it thinking too hard. It is an overhead that is not trained on in basic or advanced OW. As mewntioned it is a specialty course that leaves the minimum training environmentof ow diving.

Originally Posted by Macan
- Cavern Diver Specialty Rating, 130 feet Max Distance from the surface (vertical and horizontal distance included). Penetration only allowed within the light zone of a cave. Light Zone is a part of the cave from which natural light illuminating from the Entrance is visible AT ALL TIMES. Cavern diving is different from Cave diving. Cave diving is a dive conducted beyond the light zone of a cave and is in the realm of technical diving.



I agree technical trainied divers are not technical diving in rec environments. If the skills are being used because of need, then i would call it a technical dive.
I see no difference in cavern and cave. Its only a matter of degree of penitration. The degree of penetration determines the manditory gear needed and the extent of technical training required. The issue of swim through's is more a nit picking matter than real. a 50 foot overhead swim through is not the same as a 10 second swim through.

To perhaps modify my definition earlier in regards to training that is outside the basic scope of AOW I would better put it as training related to survival. That should exclude taking pictures as being beyond the OW recreational arena.

Like wise you can rec dive with single doubles or tripples for those that have them, but if you are ding a dive that requires the mastery of them for survival then it is a technical dive.
Once again a definition that can be nit picked again. Perhaps the difference should be made based on the skills training level required for the dive. I would not consider any tank switching a basic training level skill, any dive that REQUIRED extensive planning would be a technical dive.

 

[agilis]

I consider myself a technical snorkeler. Most of my scuba dives, though recreational, have all of the redundancy and planning, and attitude aspects claimed for technical scuba. Direct access to the surface when breathing compressed air is a dangerous concept.

Free diving is another thing entirely. For one thing, having excellent water skills is a must. I've seen scuba instructors and technical equipment junkies that would not pass the old NASDS basic certification swimming requirement.

 

[rx7diver]

Hi would like to ask you guys what defines technical diving to you personally?
i have heard getting paid to dive, a certain depth you go to, If you do decompression on ascending.

just would like to see what it means to you guys

thanks!

I am among those who believe an air decompression dive with air deco is not necessarily a technical dive. To me (to us) a technical dive requires something more. For example, I consider a nitrox decompression dive (with same nitrox deco) to be a tech dive because you now have to account for oxygen exposure. And I consider an air decompression dive with EAN and/or oxygen deco to be a tech dive because a gas change is involved. And I consider an air decompression dive with air deco to be a technical dive whenever a (air) stage bottle is involved.

But, my notion of just what constitutes a "technical dive" was shaped long ago in the late 1980's and early 1990's, when the term was just entering into the popular lexicon. I think newer divers have a different notion of what a "technical dive" is/is not.

I first heard the term when I took my cavern and basic cave certification courses in 1989. I understood then that so long as we students stuck to the basic cave-level training limits (which prohibits "jumps" and "circuits" and decompression dives and "stage bottles," etc.), our cave dives would NOT be considered technical dives.

Safe Diving,

rx7diver