Yet, another ? about tying off the SPG and primary?

[Mo2vation]

hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of dives - never un-intentionally broken a zip tie from my SPG, Long Hose or Overrated Scout. You guys in the east obviously have inferior Zip ties in your own Home Depots.

But I have had, on crowded boats, people lock in my long hose as they walked away (despite my gear was tight and stowed) or got my long hose wrapped around something by mistake as I was loading / unloading Gear.

I was very, very glad in these times the zip tie gave away with some force, as opposed to tearing the hose out of the First stage, or pulling it off the SPG.

If I added up all of the little non-DIR things I do - from a (gasp) double ender connected directly to the plastic hole in my point & shoot camera, to my (ahem) SINGLE overrated scout light (hate diving with two) to my truck key ring threaded directly to a SS boltsnap by a now groady split ring with all that (deadly) metal on metal contact in my (oh oh) non-velcro zipper pocket - I would get bounced out of the WKRP.

Oh wait, that's right - I'm not a cave diver.

For the single tank, open water, recreational diving I do, I won't lose my DIR secret decoder ring for using Zip ties. More DIR-types use them than you probably realize.

One day, when I have the time, I'll probably sit down and figger out how to tie the perfect DIR knot onto all my stuff. I'll follow one of the 20 links the DIR-types so thoughtfully created, I'll dig out the sharpie, I'll tamp the ends with a lighter, I'll burn my fingers, cuss a little, and do it all again until I get it right. But right now, spending an evening pulling 20 feet off my spool and cave lining all my crapola is kind of a waste for me. There are better things for me to do. Like dive. Until then, zip ties are an excellent, durable, fast, pre-colored, lighter-free, tough (not bulletproof) substitute for Cave line.

I don't need bulletproof. Bullet resistant is just fine.

---
Ken

 

[reubencahn]

For the single tank, open water, recreational diving I do, I won't lose my DIR secret decoder ring for using Zip ties. More DIR-types use them than you probably realize.

One day, when I have the time, I'll probably sit down and figger out how to tie the perfect DIR knot onto all my stuff. I'll follow one of the 20 links the DIR-types so thoughtfully created, I'll dig out the sharpie, I'll tamp the ends with a lighter, I'll burn my fingers, cuss a little, and do it all again until I get it right. But right now, spending an evening pulling 20 feet off my spool and cave lining all my crapola is kind of a waste for me. There are better things for me to do. Like dive. Until then, zip ties are an excellent, durable, fast, pre-colored, lighter-free, tough (not bulletproof) substitute for Cave line.

I wouldn't lose sleep over it--though I wouldn't use o-rings. I have, and they become brittle. Zip ties seem to hold up almost forever--at least the ones that attach my inflator to my wing hose do. But tying on cave line is hardly an ordeal. Even a non-boy scout like me can do it without any real effort. Probably takes less time to do an spg and a primary than to write one of these posts. The only problem is that no DIR types smoke, so no one ever has a lighter.

 

[limeyx]

:no I've used to run it under also but have been easily convinced not to by GUE instructor with task loading (valve problems, OOG, clip off, switch, OOG again, no mask)

Although with video lights, it seems under is better (since video gets clipped off to left D-ring to avoid entangling the long hose).

Maybe I'm not DIR now. Also, it doesn't even mention video cameras in the GUE standards -- maybe I should send my card back

 

[DIR-Atlanta]

Zip ties seem to hold up almost forever--at least the ones that attach my inflator to my wing hose do.

Zip ties that are used to attach inflators and mouthpieces are not subject to the same types of stresses as zip ties that would be used to attach boltsnaps. Snaps get twisted and pulled a lot during normal use, so attaching them with zip ties would increase the chances of breakage.

But tying on cave line is hardly an ordeal. Even a non-boy scout like me can do it without any real effort.

I agree. And of course one of the ideas behind DIR is that the "base" equipment is pretty much the same from rec through tech. So if you agree that cave line might preferred for tech-level applications, then there's no real reason not to use it for rec-level applications as well. It's inexpensive, simple, and does the job quite well.

 

[reubencahn]

:no I've used to run it under also but have been easily convinced not to by GUE instructor with task loading (valve problems, OOG, clip off, switch, OOG again, no mask)

I remember going through this same thing and agreeing with my instructor's conclusion that either way was a potential cluster if you lost awareness. I gather that the current consensus is if you run the cord under, you're a stroke, but I'm not sure I see it.

 

[Mo2vation]

I remember going through this same thing and agreeing with my instructor's conclusion that either way was a potential cluster if you lost awareness. I gather that the current consensus is if you run the cord under, you're a stroke, but I'm not sure I see it.

Light goes under when I'm with the big camera. Goes over when I'm not shooting.

The most frequent strokery of the Canister light is on the way in and out of the water - just clipping off the head without tucking the flailing cord into the waist band. Flailing cords get caught on swimsteps, knees and on other divers exiting the surf.

---
Ken

 

[do it easy]

I remember going through this same thing and agreeing with my instructor's conclusion that either way was a potential cluster if you lost awareness. I gather that the current consensus is if you run the cord under, you're a stroke, but I'm not sure I see it.

This might be a dead horse, but wouldn't this be a non-issue if you ran the cord under and in an air share, you would duck and donate, clip off the light, then deploy the rest of the long hose?

 

[limeyx]

This might be a dead horse, but wouldn't this be a non-issue if you ran the cord under and in an air share, you would duck and donate, clip off the light, then deploy the rest of the long hose?

The problem with under is not this case.
The problem is that if you clip off the light (oh, say to stage switch, shoot a bag etc.)
and dont run the light head under your hose on the way back, it will trap the hose and make donation more difficult.

I think the "decision" was that with the light over, it was slightly less of a CF to donate

I run mine over but see plenty run it under.

 

[do it easy]

The problem with under is not this case.
The problem is that if you clip off the light (oh, say to stage switch, shoot a bag etc.)
and dont run the light head under your hose on the way back, it will trap the hose and make donation more difficult.

I think the "decision" was that with the light over, it was slightly less of a CF to donate

I run mine over but see plenty run it under.

Thanks, I used the knew and impruved search feature and answered my question... D'oh!

 

[DIR-Atlanta]

I remember going through this same thing and agreeing with my instructor's conclusion that either way was a potential cluster if you lost awareness.

Fundamentally, this boils down to an "open water" vs "cave" issue.

In cave diving, we are constantly clipping off the light head to fiddle with stage bottles, run reels, etc. As someone else pointed out, if the light cord is under the long hose, then when you clip it off, the long hose will be "captured", making it more difficult to deploy. A stage bottle drop or pickup is one of the most vulnerable points during a dive where a temporary OOG situation can occur. If you had to donate gas at exactly that instance, then there is no "potential" about it - it will be a cluster.

So in cave diving, it makes the most sense to have the cord go over the long hose. Get the OOG diver his gas, and then figure out where to go from there.

In OW diving, you typically don't do as much clipping with the light head, so the feeling was that leaving the light in the donating diver's hand (with the hose over the cord), would be the most effective way to handle an OOG situation. That way the light could be used for signalling, etc. Once the OOG diver is plugged in, the long hose can be deployed, and then the team makes for the surface.

For a time, I think GUE was actually teaching it both ways - "cord under" in the Tech courses, "cord over" in the Cave courses. Eventually, I guess they decided that it didn't make sense to have two procedures, so they officially settled on the "Cave" method.

At least that was the way I heard it.