2024: view for primary/backup torches, and dive knife

[mr_v]

because they have self-discharge, and are more likely to experience a sudden failures. Alkaline batteries are very stable and reliable, and constantly recharging backup lights would increase the risk of one of them flooding by the opening and closing, and it's just 1 more thing to have to deal with. It's nice just to be able to throw the backup lights onto your harness and not worry about them. Twist on lights are preferable because they're unlikely to turn on accidentally and do not have a switch to fail.

You're right, there are cases where cheap batteries with questionable origin and workmanship caused fires, bodily damage, and other problems. There are well documented cases, including some references on this board. However, many divers use high quality primary lights with rechargeable batteries because quality cores, workmanship, and chargers address those issues. UWLD, Light Monkey, and other name brands make reliable gear. Also, most divers I know will replace rechargeable batteries within a year or so. If all rechargeable batteries were crap, manufacturers would not use them in lights or scooters at all, but they do...

If you want to buy a high-quality light with typical alkaline batteries, buy it because:

- You can find batteries anywhere in the world
- The batteries are cheap
- You can upgrade, repair high-quality lights like Heser and Halcyon
- The battery burn time will likely outlast most gas or scrubbers (i.e., gradual dimming)
- The lights are simple, may operate when flooded
- You can use these lights as primary dive lights for recreational dives
- You like quality, simple gear that will have a place in your dive box for many years

Finally, there are cases where typical alkaline-powered batteries may not be good enough. Consider what happens if your primary fails 4000' in a cave when you have to exit on a scooter. Yeah, you can do it, but the light may not be enough to run at a typical speed.

 

[crofrog]

You're right, there are cases where cheap batteries with questionable origin and workmanship caused fires, bodily damage, and other problems. There are well documented cases, including some references on this board. However, many divers use high quality primary lights with rechargeable batteries because quality cores, workmanship, and chargers address those issues. UWLD, Light Monkey, and other name brands make reliable gear. Also, most divers I know will replace rechargeable batteries within a year or so. If all rechargeable batteries were crap, manufacturers would not use them in lights or scooters at all, but they do...

If you want to buy a high-quality light with typical alkaline batteries, buy it because:

- You can find batteries anywhere in the world
- The batteries are cheap
- You can upgrade, repair high-quality lights like Heser and Halcyon
- The battery burn time will likely outlast most gas or scrubbers (i.e., gradual dimming)
- The lights are simple, may operate when flooded
- You can use these lights as primary dive lights for recreational dives
- You like quality, simple gear that will have a place in your dive box for many years

Finally, there are cases where typical alkaline-powered batteries may not be good enough. Consider what happens if your primary fails 4000' in a cave when you have to exit on a scooter. Yeah, you can do it, but the light may not be enough to run at a typical speed.

I keep spare primary in my pocket for the team to use

 

[lizardland]

I found an old halogen UK SL4 with disposable batteries on the floor of a cave in France. Dropped by someone god knows how long ago, been years since I've seen one. Picked it up, it turned on first time and provided enough light to find my stage bottles and swim about 400m or so out of the cave.

Which was really handy as I was solo diving, my primary had failed, there was only a boltsnap dangling there when I reached for my first back up and my second back up proceeded to flicker and sputter before going out completely just as I found the SL4. I feel quite privileged to have experienced the mythical triple light failure

Moral of the story, the basic but reliable technology in backups works. You just need to see where the line is going for as long as it takes to get out.

 

[lukeb]

I found an old halogen UK SL4 with disposable batteries on the floor of a cave in France. Dropped by someone god knows how long ago, been years since I've seen one. Picked it up, it turned on first time and provided enough light to find my stage bottles and swim about 400m or so out of the cave.

Which was really handy as I was solo diving, my primary had failed, there was only a boltsnap dangling there when I reached for my first back up and my second back up proceeded to flicker and sputter before going out completely just as I found the SL4. I feel quite privileged to have experienced the mythical triple light failure

Moral of the story, the basic but reliable technology in backups works. You just need to see where the line is going for as long as it takes to get out.

That is awesome! (Epic story by the way!). I actually still have two SL4s and an even older SL6! My daughter uses them when she plays in the pool after dark They still work great!

It amazes me looking at the light they put out and remembering when I thought they were super bright!!

 

[rjack321]

because they have self-discharge, and are more likely to experience a sudden failures. Alkaline batteries are very stable and reliable, and constantly recharging backup lights would increase the risk of one of them flooding by the opening and closing, and it's just 1 more thing to have to deal with. It's nice just to be able to throw the backup lights onto your harness and not worry about them. Twist on lights are preferable because they're unlikely to turn on accidentally and do not have a switch to fail.

Li-ion batteries have a lower self-discharge rate than alkaline's - which may also leak acid during storage

 

[lostsheep]

This loyalty to alkaline batteries is bordering on Luddite zealotry.

My cheap dgx backup lights , powered by (gasp) li ion batteries have been rock solid for > 10 years, I’ve never had a single problem with the batteries other than having to change them as they reach end of life. They get opened often to charge, they see occasional use as a primary , and even survived 2 trips through the laundry.

Remembering to charge batteries isn’t any harder than remembering to fill my tanks and carrying spare batteries is a whole lot easier than spare tanks. If yall can’t be bothered to maintain li ion batteries then tech diving is probably above your pay grade…definitely stay away from CCR

ETA:
In open water, a light failure is a nuisance but by no means an emergency at all.

In a cave, obviously the situation changes. I find it absolutely astounding anyone entering that environment would be “looking for one less thing” or otherwise concerned in anyway at the level of prep required to safely conduct those dives. Is it really a nuisance to have to pull the lights off of the harness? If you’re afraid of frequent openings , get a 100 pack of orings from McMaster and just change them; alternatively get one of the lights that charges via usb. WRT self discharge, it’s not exactly rocket surgery to figure out approximately how long it would take for the capacity of a li ion to decrease down to the FULL capacity of an alkaline.

 

[jbandre]

just adding my two cents...I have a few orca torches and have had no issues with them 70+ dives. Most of the folks in my group have them as well and have not heard any issues. I wills say I switched to a smaller one that is twist and I've decided I don't want to have a twist torch again. Just the fact that you need two hands to get it turn on is enough...When holding a camera or something else its pretty annoying. as you decent sometimes it turns on by itself assuming due to the added pressure. Button operated for me from now on.

 

[PfcAJ]

Button operated will operate unintentionally. It is inevitable.

Twist on doesn’t do that if you simply press on the bezel and ensure it’s not screwed in enough to be pressure activated.

 

[mr_v]

This loyalty to alkaline batteries is bordering on Luddite zealotry.

Not really. Many people have lights operated by both battery types and appreciate each technology's benefits. Alkaline batteries have low self-discharge rate, readily available all over the world, and won't be a fire hazard when flooded. I would not replace all lights with alkaline powered alternatives, but will keep my Heser in addition to many others.

 

[mr_v]

Li-ion batteries have a lower self-discharge rate than alkaline's - which may also leak acid during storage

No, that's not correct. Alkaline tech is basically designed for long shelf life, 2% per annum or so. Li-ion has self-discharge rate ~5-10x of Alkaline.