My Favorite so Far
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Underwater MINE Field!
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Underwater MINE Field!
Yellow and Red Dive Flag?
- Thread starter lil_chure
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Eris Lucan7*
Guest
Page 170 of that book,is delicus,includes dude lunatic like.
7*
7*
Somethin-Fishey:
Don Burke
Contributor
...or words to that effect.Eris Lucan7*:
H2Andy
Contributor
lil_chure:
hmmm... the only thing i can think of is the Yankee flag, and that has several
stripes
it's not a diving flag, just means you are dragging anchor
oh, or maybe the pennant for 0 (zero)
but i don't think that's what you're talking about
There is a great deal of misunderstanding regarding the proper display of signals to indicate a diving operation.
The International Code of Signals indicates that the letter "A" in any form, including the "A" flag, may be used to communicate between vessels that a vessel has divers down. The code of signals, however, does not require such communication, nor does it place an obligation upon the ship receiving the communication.
"The International Regulations for Prevention of Collisions at Sea" (COLREGS), however, along with the Inland Navigation Rules in the USA have the force of law. The COLREGS and the Inland Rules, Rule 27, (d) require a vessel engaged in dredging or underwater operations, when restricted in the ability to maneuver, to display the shapes: Ball - Diamond - Ball or, at night, the lights Red - White - Red in a vertical line. If the vessel is a diving vessel and is too small for it to be practical for it to display the required shapes it may substitute a rigid replica of the international Code flag "A" not less than 1 meter in height. The red - White - Red lights are still required at night. These shapes and signals confer on the vessel displaying them the rights of a "vessel restricted in the ability to maneuver" and at the same time impose restrictions on other vessels maneuvering in the same area. Generally speaking, a vessel displaying these shapes or signals has the "right of way" over most other vessels.
In the USA most states have laws requiring the use of the red and white "divers down" flag to be used both from a boat and by divers not accompanied by a boat. These states generally specify how close divers must surface to the flag and how far away boaters must stay away. The laws are not consistant among the different states.
The International Code of Signals indicates that the letter "A" in any form, including the "A" flag, may be used to communicate between vessels that a vessel has divers down. The code of signals, however, does not require such communication, nor does it place an obligation upon the ship receiving the communication.
"The International Regulations for Prevention of Collisions at Sea" (COLREGS), however, along with the Inland Navigation Rules in the USA have the force of law. The COLREGS and the Inland Rules, Rule 27, (d) require a vessel engaged in dredging or underwater operations, when restricted in the ability to maneuver, to display the shapes: Ball - Diamond - Ball or, at night, the lights Red - White - Red in a vertical line. If the vessel is a diving vessel and is too small for it to be practical for it to display the required shapes it may substitute a rigid replica of the international Code flag "A" not less than 1 meter in height. The red - White - Red lights are still required at night. These shapes and signals confer on the vessel displaying them the rights of a "vessel restricted in the ability to maneuver" and at the same time impose restrictions on other vessels maneuvering in the same area. Generally speaking, a vessel displaying these shapes or signals has the "right of way" over most other vessels.
In the USA most states have laws requiring the use of the red and white "divers down" flag to be used both from a boat and by divers not accompanied by a boat. These states generally specify how close divers must surface to the flag and how far away boaters must stay away. The laws are not consistant among the different states.
Somethin-Fishey
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I'm sorry, maybe I should be more specific. I want to know EXACTLY how you would dive in INTERNATIONAL waters from other than a boat? Are you going to kick paddle your bouy 45 miles off shore (Or even 3 for that matter, around here, that would get you to 12ft deep) I have dove in 14 foreign countries and because we are a US flagged vessel, we fly the Alfa and Red/White stripe flags. No other captain has asked what the Alfa flag represented, but how far away they should stay etc. Alot have asked what the "red/white flag" was though....
If you are diving off of a pier, your are in someone's territorial waters, in the USA it USUALLY means the red/white flag. In the other countries I have dove off piers and such, we always used both flags, but once again, with a few exceptions no one knew what the red/white flag was.
Along those same lines, if you are in the gulfstream 55 miles off of the east coast with a bouy and no support boat CLOSE by, what makes you think a 700FT supertanker is even gonna see ANY flag you have up?
If you are diving off of a pier, your are in someone's territorial waters, in the USA it USUALLY means the red/white flag. In the other countries I have dove off piers and such, we always used both flags, but once again, with a few exceptions no one knew what the red/white flag was.
Along those same lines, if you are in the gulfstream 55 miles off of the east coast with a bouy and no support boat CLOSE by, what makes you think a 700FT supertanker is even gonna see ANY flag you have up?
H2Andy
Contributor
captndale:
yessir... also, many states (not all) require use of the Alpha flag as mandated
by the USCG when on Federal waters (either inland or off-shore) to be
flown from the boat (not by divers in the water)
this is actually redundant, since the USCG mandates use of the Alpha flag
from a boat anyway under certain circumstances, but some states redundantly
require it.
to be absolutely covered, you should fly both the Alpha and the Diver's Down
flag from the boat wherever your boat is.
Somethin-Fishey:
yessir... actually, it ALWAYS meand the red/white flag.
there is no law by any state that i know of or by the USCG that
an Alpha flag be towed by a diver in the water. all the states that i know of
mandate is the Diver Down flag to be towed by the divers.
Click on the photo in my gallery.
A look at the picture of my boat will show the various shapes and flags.
The "Diver Down" red and white flag is flying near the stern. This flag is mandated by both Illinois and Wisconsin where we do most of our diving.
The shapes, "Ball - Diamond - Ball" are displayed in the center. These shapes are required by the Inland Rules, Rule 27, (d).
Farther foreward we fly an "A" flag. The "A" flag is not required, because its use is actually a substitute for the shapes that we are already displaying, but most recreational boaters don't know what the shapes mean so I fly the "A" flag as well.
Over the bow another black ball is displayed. This is generally referred to as an "anchor ball" and indicates to other vessels that the boat is at anchor.
If you look closely, you can also pick out three lights mounted on the front of the foreward mast. These can be illuminated at night so as to display the mandated red - white - red light signals.
A look at the picture of my boat will show the various shapes and flags.
The "Diver Down" red and white flag is flying near the stern. This flag is mandated by both Illinois and Wisconsin where we do most of our diving.
The shapes, "Ball - Diamond - Ball" are displayed in the center. These shapes are required by the Inland Rules, Rule 27, (d).
Farther foreward we fly an "A" flag. The "A" flag is not required, because its use is actually a substitute for the shapes that we are already displaying, but most recreational boaters don't know what the shapes mean so I fly the "A" flag as well.
Over the bow another black ball is displayed. This is generally referred to as an "anchor ball" and indicates to other vessels that the boat is at anchor.
If you look closely, you can also pick out three lights mounted on the front of the foreward mast. These can be illuminated at night so as to display the mandated red - white - red light signals.
H2Andy
Contributor
captndale:
righto... it would only be required if your boat is too small to display the other
shapes, i believe
ok... here's the pertinent section:
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/Rules/Rule27.htm
(note the mandatory "shall")
(e) Whenever the size of a vessel engaged in diving operations makes it impracticable to exhibit all lights and shapes prescribed in paragraph (d) of this Rule, the following shall be exhibited:
i. Three all-round lights in a vertical line where they can best be seen. The highest and lowest of these lights shall be red and the middle light shall be white;
ii. A rigid replica of the International Code flag "A" not less than 1 meter in height. Measures shall be taken to ensure its all-round visibility.
(since there is no "or" joining i. and ii. both are required)
H2Andy:
Actually which is required is dependant upon the conditions of visibility.
This is covered in Rule 20, Application
(c) The lights prescribed by these Rules shall, if carried, also be exhibited from sunrise to sunset in restricted visibility and may be exhibited in all other circumstances when it is deemed necessary.
(d) The Rules concerning shapes shall be complied with by day.
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