Wrist computer for Tech diving..

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That's not strictly accurate. You not taking into account which dive program the diver is using. I use Decoplanner on the Buhlmann tables, my Suunto is always clear before I come up. If on the other hand you are using VPM then yes the Suunto keeps you in for longer. But who cares? If you're on Open Circuit and have paid for the Gas, use it! Nobody ever died from having too much gas.

I cave/tech dive with someone that has a Suunto HelO2, which uses a proprietary RGBM algorithm. The computer has five settings for conservatism (P-2 to P+2) and is not very conservative when set in the least conservative mode. Deco times are shorter than Buhlman 16C when using the least conservative mode. The HelO2 also has a slick desktop manager and dive planner.

On the down side, and much to the frustration of my buddy, it is not very easy to read in the dark (like a cave or deep water). If you have both hands available, you can push the button for the light, but this is not always convenient. Unfortunately, typical canister lights overwhelm the display and make it impossible to read.

I'm currently using a Uemis and X1, although I primarily dive tables in the ocean and use the computers as a backup. If you are not going to use trimix anytime soon and want air integration, the Uemis is pretty slick and easy for you, and everyone else within 10 feet, to read in a cave. It also makes a very nice quaternary dive light, and is, um, useful for cheating on those lights-out cave diving training exercises. All I can say about the X1 at this point (I just started using it) is that it is easy to use and very readable in the water.

While I no firsthand experience with the Shearwater Predator, I have only seen good reviews.
 
I use a Nitek-X, and although it's behaving itself now, it's been a very bumpy ride. Let me explain:

I was very sad when my Dive Rite He died and went to that great big cave in the sky last summer. Amazing old clunker of a computer. Looked as weird as all get-out - big plastic brick with a tiny display unit plastered on the front - but I loved it. (I got it from my fiance, who proudly flies a Shearwater - not that it stops him from making sheep's eyes at a Liquivision also. Damned expensive habit, this.) When the computer died, Dive Rite said the computer was beyond saving, but offered me a rebuilt Nitex-X if I traded my He in, plus $500. That was the start of the fun. We had to send it back three times, the last time because the motherboard completely freaked out, and had to be replaced. Since then, though, it's been a decent computer. (I still miss my He, and always have to surpress a sigh when I see someone offering one on the decostop or the Cave Diver's Forum.) I have to say, Dive Rite's customer service was absolutely marvellous throughout the whole affair - one can't grumble about that at all.

I haven't seen too many folks using the Nitek-X, but I believe that's partly attributable to bad timing on Dive Rite's part...it was in the making for so long, and came out so long after VR3, Shearwater and Liquivision, that it missed the critical window of market opportunity. If other folks also had problems with their units (I don't know if any did), that wouldn't have helped, either. Another factor is that I'm stuck in Hawaii, and don't get out much! Anyway. You'll probably encounter the Nitek-X as you research tech computers a little further, so I figured I'd share my experiences.
 
What's the customer service like for Cochran & Shearwater.
 
I would discuss this with your instructor prior to spending any money on anything. Your first exposure to tech instruction is going to be an eye opener. If you buy what the instructor requires and set it up the way the instructor wants it for class you will not make any monetary missteps. I was required to buy vplanner or simmilar and cut tables. I stayed with that for 2 years before I even thought about purchasing a tech computer for on the fly deco. Used bottom timers or rec pucks that can be put in gauge mode are easy to come by.
just my .02
Eric
 
tgsmith:
Before you go spending a lot of money on the Liquivision X1, or even their new Xeo when it comes out, consider doing a search on google for "liquivision problems" or "X1 problems
Interesting comment. I did what you suggested, and now know that there are lots of problems with certain cell phones, that 15 months ago someone posted a thread expressing concern that somehow the Liquivision company was in trouble, which it clearly wan't, and little of anything else about the X1 dive computer. I dive an X1, and love it. I even had an X1 die during a deco dive (on the Oriskany) two years ago. But, that wasn't a problem as I was using tables and a timer anyway (and had a second He-enabled computer - Nitek He - with me as well). I called Liquivision after the dive, and a replacement computer arrived in NC before I had even gotten back from the trip. Magnificent display, great functionality, terrific customer service.
I cave/tech dive with someone that has a Suunto HelO2, . . . On the down side, . . . it is not very easy to read in the dark (like a cave or deep water).
Good point, and agree. With decent ambient light it is very easy to read, however. My buddy and I were doing deco stops last summer off a wreck in the St. Lawrence, and I noticed that I could read his HeLo2, over his shoulder below / besdie me, as well as I could read my own.

As the responses indicate, there are a number of good choices available, and it is hard to say that one or two units are 'best'. People can become very 'attached' to whatever choice they have made - e.g. I love my X1 and my HeLo2, and my Vytec before that, but I don't care for my Nitek He all that much, and I have no first hand experience with Cochran or Shearwater so I can't directly compare them. And, I agree with the suggestion to wait, and discuss a computer choice with one / more instructors that you anticipate training with, before you buy. But, don't expect to necessarily get a completely objective assessment from an instructor, either. They will tell you what works best for them, and therefore what will work for you while training with them. The advantage is, they may had had a longer duration of experience with whatever they use, they may have tried a broader selection of units and can compare them, and they probably will have more experience using the unit in the actual conditions that you want to get to through training.
 
my bf had a cochran - i'm not sure which one, but he's posted about this issue so you might be able to find one of his posts.

anyway, with the auto gas switches, it's a poor choice for caves. if the cave contour comes up to 20ft, you're switched to your o2 and there's no way to shut it off. then the cave goes down again and the computer thinks you're dead. so then you're dealing with a beeping hot mess.

for ocean deco diving, it might be wonderful. not a good computer for caves.
 
What's the customer service like for Cochran & Shearwater.

Customer service for Shearwater is incredibly,unbelievably,good. (From personal experience)

Have never heard anything good said about Cochran service,but maybe I missed that post.
I would never buy a Cochran. My understanding is they automatically do gas switches,which is great until you lose a deco gas for whatever reason. Then you are back to using tables with a $1000 computer on your wrist. That never made any sense to me.
 
Interesting comment. I did what you suggested, and now know that there are lots of problems with certain cell phones, that 15 months ago someone posted a thread expressing concern that somehow the Liquivision company was in trouble, which it clearly wan't, and little of anything else about the X1 dive computer. I dive an X1, and love it. I even had an X1 die during a deco dive (on the Oriskany) two years ago. But, that wasn't a problem as I was using tables and a timer anyway (and had a second He-enabled computer - Nitek He - with me as well). I called Liquivision after the dive, and a replacement computer arrived in NC before I had even gotten back from the trip. Magnificent display, great functionality, terrific customer service.

Sorry that you didn't see the threads I was vaguely referencing.
There's plenty of threads about X1 reliability problems. There's even one from just this month(or maybe January?) on TDS.com. Plenty of people have had to replace their X1's multiple times. Several members on TDS.com have replaced their X1 4, 7, even 11 times, and reference friends who've done the same! So there's plenty of reports on X1's failing. Liquivision claims that the pressure sensor issue has been resolved, but they're still getting computers sent back(at least from what I've seen) for screen issues and battery problems. You yourself have had your Liquivision replaced, and sure every company puts out a lemon once in a while. But.....there's many more like you that have had their Liquivision fail. They might have great customer service post sale, but it'd be really cool to not have to send you computer back in the first place. Customer service also includes building a product that doesn't need to be replaced, in my opinion.

These are just my observations from seeing people in person who owned/still own X1's, and reading the experiences of people online. Kinda reminds me of the Hammerhead CCR electronics......a lot of their owners love them, but I still haven't met one HH electronics owner in person that hasn't had them fail at least once. But they still love them......until they sell it off, that is. Talk about being emotionally invested in scuba gear......

About Cochrans customer service, I haven't had to send anything back to them for warranty work or repairs......so I can't comment about when the **** hits the fan. Otherwise, they've been helpful and courteous. There are plenty of bad CS stories online if you do a search, so keep that in mind. I wouldn't be looking at a Cochran for a primary computer, though, anyways.

Also about the Cochrans, one member wrote that if you lose a gas you just stay slightly below the stop depth so it won't change over(22 feet versus 20 feet for 02, specifically). That's true, and does pretty much kill the arguement against auto gas switches, but ONLY in the circumstance of losing O2 for your 20ft stop. If you are using 3 gasses and lose your midrange gas, you're SOL and are pulling out your tables. Or, if you're using anything other than O2 for deco, such as EAN50 @ 70ft, then you're also pulling out your tables. So Murphy-1, Cochran-0. That's a very good reason not to use it as a primary computer. I'm using the Cochran as a backup to my Shearwater. Before that I was using a bottom timer as my backup. So, I'm not losing anything by going with the Cochran instead of the bottom timer as my backup. Also, I figure the chances of me losing my Shearwater AND deco gas on a single dive being quite low.

So, to anyone reading, my point is no computer is perfect. The X1 is an awesome computer, but it does have a history of problems. On the flip side, the Shearwater is a rock-solid capable computer with awesome CS, but they are bricks(which may or may not bother you). Wait a little bit and you might be able to find a used Shearwater Pursuit for under $800, or if the brick factor doesn't matter even a Shearwater GF for even less! Depending on the model, Cochrans have a history of problems and CS issues, but if you shop around you can get a very good deal and it might fit in your kit setup(I got my EMC-20H and Analyst Pro for $475). If you do consider a Cochran, make sure you get the serial number from the seller and check with Cochran as to whether it factory supported anymore. Nitek HE's can be had for $350 or so, and are a solid computer until something breaks or it goes on the fritz, at which point you're screwed since Dive Rite no longer offers factory support for it. The VR3 is a very capable computer on paper, but are nowhere near as robust as they appear and based on your own personal preferences you may not like its user interface. Still, they can be had for $600 or so used. So hopefully you were able to pick up some helpful info in this thread, but be sure to do addition research on what you're specifically looking at and think about how it affects your kit. In the very end, you could just get two bottom timers totalling no more than $500!

P.S. Buy a Shearwater Predator. :)
 
my bf had a cochran - i'm not sure which one, but he's posted about this issue so you might be able to find one of his posts.

anyway, with the auto gas switches, it's a poor choice for caves. if the cave contour comes up to 20ft, you're switched to your o2 and there's no way to shut it off. then the cave goes down again and the computer thinks you're dead. so then you're dealing with a beeping hot mess.

for ocean deco diving, it might be wonderful. not a good computer for caves.

Marci,

Remember me? Tyler....the younger(ish) marine from Cathy's over X-mas/new years. Larry had an EMC-20H. I think I've argued with him once or twice on here or TDS about using it as a primary computer. That's a good point about the cave deal, but honestly, how do you guys rack up deco going from P1 past Olsen and back!? :wink: Why would you even need O2 set in the computer for that dive! :) Peacock is the only cave I've dove with a profile that would cause a concern for that auto switch ability except I've never needed O2 in P1, let alone even had deco at all. I haven't dove Lafayette, it might be a problem in there but again I haven't dove it.

It was nice to see you guys over new years. are you heading back down to Cathy's anytime soon? Hope you're enjoying the pink helmet and lights!
 
I'm certainly not going to deny that we have had reliability issues in the past. Liquivision definitely has had more than our fair share of growing pains, and quite frankly, for a while it was rather expensive to maintain our high level of customer service in replacing units which had failed.

I will say, however, that through these growing pains we learned and grew as a company, and the X1s we are producing now are proving extremely reliable. While we still offer the same extraordinary customer service, we're fortunately not having to prove it as often as we have in the past. We have fixed all the problems from the past, and included additional safeguards in our current product line.

After a redesign of the X1, including the changing to more robust ceramic pressure sensors and other internal changes, we have had next to no failures. We also have incorporated all the best practices with the new X1 hardware into our new products, the Xen and Xeo.

We appreciate the continued support of our customers and look forward to proving our products' reliability in the years to come. For those who have had troubles with our products in the past, we apologize and hope that, in time, you will consider our products again.

If anyone has questions or would like to reach me directly, please feel free to send a PM via this board or email us at info@liquivision.ca - we're very approachable and happy to discuss anything you'd like.

-Doug
Liquivision Marketing & Sales Manager
 

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