Wrestling with drysuit buoyancy - update

[RIdiverMike]

Thanks to all for helpful advice, encouragement and mucho chuckles as well!

Lobzilla - excellent mental approach you suggest! Workwise, I may have trouble in the next couple months making a GUE class, but will definitely consider, especially if I don't see improvement otherwise.
TSandM - you were one of the first to get me thinking that I could be underweighted. Many folks (LDS owner, friends) told me that I was likely overweighted and that I was compensating by putting in too much air, thus resulting in ascents/floaty feet. But as you point out, how else to reconcile ascent problems with unrelenting crotch squeeze at the same time? Will definitely add a few lbs and check it out. And by the way, your dive journal is an absolute pants wetter, p-valve included or not.
KathyDee - love to take the GUE fundamentals someday, though next couple months could be tough. Right now I dive with a Seaquest jacket style which I gather GUE poo-poos. I'm a bit reluctant to switch to BP/W's right now but definitely food for thought. And good points about the fins and valve. My Tusa split fins are pretty light. Jet fins or or maybe Hollis F-1's might help and get me some more thrust too. Believe my valve is high profile but admit I'm not positive so will confirm.
ScubaVideo - As mentioned, my initial uncontrolled ascents were met with cries of "you must be overweighted" but I'm certainly reassessing now. And my dive buddies who only dive dry scoff at ankle weights for someone of my build. Even DUI manual describes them as "training wheels". But if Kathydee's fin suggestion doesn't help, I'll put the ankle weights back on and give that and the gators a try. Loved your "noob" remark. Could be guilty as charged, your honor! Good luck with your 350 by the way.

To all, encouraging to know others didn't necessarily get all this smooth right away! Thanks again!

 

[kathydee]

KathyDee - love to take the GUE fundamentals someday, though next couple months could be tough. Right now I dive with a Seaquest jacket style which I gather GUE poo-poos. I'm a bit reluctant to switch to BP/W's right now but definitely food for thought. And good points about the fins and valve. My Tusa split fins are pretty light. Jet fins or or maybe Hollis F-1's might help and get me some more thrust too.

Hi Mike,

GUE also offers a Drysuit Primer course, but I'm not certain if GUE-F is a pre-rec? It's worth emailing Bob to check.

LOL - I think I had Tusa splits too - they were impossible to dive with the drysuit and never made it out of the pool section of my drysuit class. I was always floating up feet first & they didn't have enough power to kick back into position! I think the Jet's are quite a bit heavier than the Hollis and should eliminate the need for ankle weights - I've picked up several pairs used on this board for about $30 each - also ebay is a great place to find them used . Beware - diving Jets will feel quite strange after diving tusa splits. Takes a while to get use to them - at first felt like two pieces of plywood strapped to my feet but now I love them.

You are welcome to post a shot of the dump valve here and we can take a look at the model.

Re BCD - I absolutely loved my SP back inflate Lady Hawk & could see no reason to swap. Was very hesitant to climb into the bp/w contraption when I had less than 10 DS dives and was still a reckless drysuit diver. But miraculously the Lady Hawk was listed on the classified section after my first bp/w dive . For me, there was absolutely no comparison ;-). From the very first dive it made a huge difference in positioning my body in the water & thus control in the drysuit. I absolutely loved it!

Good luck!

 

[Saudi-Diver]

Sounds like your under weighted suffering squeeze in your suit like that. I ended up in a similar situation at about the 20th Dry suit dive, I was desperate to shave some weight off my weight belt so as I gained experience with the dry suit I was reducing my weight and ended up at the end of the dive shrink wrapped and struggling to hold my safety stop. I find I have adopted a sort of Falling Sky Diver position in the water column and now just have to roll the Dump valve to the highest point on ascent to dump air. Once trimmed out I don,t really mind where the bubble of air is in my suit. I dive with the dump valve fully open and very seldom manually dump air.

 

[RIdiverMike]

I tried adding weight this weekend and dove with 18 lbs with my S100 and TLS350 and medium weight undergarments (2 ArmorAll and one Pinnacle 100gm fleece all in one) - had been wearing 14 with this set-up. I did do a weight check with 500lbs and it seemed about right. I wanted to see whether the extra weight would allow me to put in enough air to offset the crotch squeeze. It may have been slightly better than in the past - kinda hard to say. Still getting the inversions if I'm just floating and not finning. And it still seems weird that even when I'm fully inverted and I can feel the air in my Turbo Soles, the crotch area remains painfully shrink wrapped around my groin area. If it gets to my feet, how does it bypass the crotch when I'm upside down?

I'm just assuming that other ds divers out there don't normally swim with their crotches shrink wrapped throughout the dive like I do! You don't have to be a sadomasochist to enjoy a ds, right?

I'll keep plugging at this thing as time allows. Fortunately, we're heading to the Fla Keys in December for a wedding. Weather permitting, we hope to dive some warm water wrecks. Will frankly be a pleasure to actually focus on seeing neat stuff in the water rather than on how much my nuts hurt in the ds - LOL, (kinda)!

Cheers.

 

[Lobzilla]

Did you do the Raul maneuver? I paid more attention to the drysuit guys last weekend and everyone seems to do this in one form or another. (I used to look the other way before to avoid bouts of warm-envy)

When you walk into the water the suit will rise up on your legs and your family jewels are the only thing stopping that trend in a properly sized suit. On a drysuit try-out, I found this more noticeable in trilaminate than in crushed neoprene but that may depend more on the actual cut of the suit.

Also, do not tighten the suspenders to the pain limit. They are only there to prevent you from tripping on the dry.

From my observation, and confirmed by my instructor, in anything other than a horizontal attitude you will get squeezed somewhere. Maybe you are too afraid of the feet-up number that you are now swimming feet and crotch down.

As others have pointed out, and my short experiments confirmed, heavy 'sinker' fins like Jets or Turtles are much better for a drysuit and not just for balance. When you are not finning, have your thighs horizontal, your calves vertical, and the fin blades horizontal again. This may be counter-intuitive but it lowers the momentum getting you in the feet up position by reducing the leverage of the buoyancy in your legs. Hold both hands together and move them closer to your chest or further forward. Depending on the buoancy of your arms, that will change things one way or the other. If that is not enough to prevent you from going feet up then you need to either get excess air out of your legs (gaiters) or shift weight to your butt (e.g. steel tank, lead). I would only use ankle weights as the last resort, but that's just my opinion -- the rest is Physics.

Depending on how quickly DUI ships I will be on Cape Ann, MA either the 2nd or 3rd weekend of November with my drysuit and instructor. Please feel free to join us.

 

[TSandM]

I hadn't thought of the suspenders, but if they are pulling the crotch of the suit up, that could be a problem.

Is there a crotch strap on your BC? If that's too tight, that could be the problem.

Essentially, this really can't be dry suit squeeze. If you are feet up, then squeeze will be greatest in your arms and shoulders, and get less as you go toward the feet. If there's no change in the feeling of the crotch in that position, compared with horizontal or feet down, then the problem isn't squeeze -- it's mechanical constriction of some kind. When you did the tests of mobility, did you do them in the undergarment you are using?

If you don't have much air in the suit, and you're still going feet up, you may have too much weight high on your body. Although I don't recommend them as a long-term solution, you might try a dive using ankle weights, and see a) if you are more stable and b) what, if anything, this does to the tightness in the crotch of the suit.

 

[RIdiverMike]

Hi Lobzilla,

Heavier fins are on the way and I'll try the ankle weights again too if need be. I know the swimming posture you're referring to; right now that quickly leads me to inversion unfortunately. I put the weights in my ditchable pockets around the waist, none in the higher trim pockets in back. You're absolutely right about me swimming (or trying to) with feet/crotch a bit downward to avoid inversion. As I say however, what's baffling me is how my crotch can be so squeezed when I'm literally upside down, which is quite often! Will loosen the suspenders to check that option. And if it works out, might like to take you up on the offer to join you and your instructor at Cape Ann. The beers are on me if you can help me stop singing falsetto!

 

[RIdiverMike]

Hi TSandM,

No BC crotch strap. Interesting point on possible mechanical constriction; I do actually have soreness in my chest near the shoulders, which feels like a squeeze result, but nothing compared to the crotch. I didn't originally try on the suit (which is used) with my current undergarments but have done so since; I didn't notice any particular tightness during the 3 mobility tests referenced in the DUI manual. I forgot to mention in my reply to Lobzilla that I tried the Raul manuever but couldn't seem to release the crotch squeeze regardless of how much air I put in. I'll try it again next time however, since I was a bit rushed may not have given it enough time.

Thanks again!

 

[SEMO Scuba]

Have you considered wearing a jock strap with a cup?

 

[coldwaterdufus]

I dive a Bare Nexgen DS. It took approx 50 dives ( out of a grand total 0f 71 ) before I really started to understand everything I had been told and read. During my OW and AOW, I was told to use my suit for buoyancy and the BC only on the surface. I struggled with this for probably 45 dives. I then signed up for a peak buoyancy class. The first thing the instructor ( who turned out to be a tech diver ) said to me was ( his opinion ) to only put enough air in the suit to avoid squeeze and the rest in the BC for buoyancy. I know there are 2 schools of thought on this. But, it was sooooo much easier for me to use this method. The more I practised, the more I realized the problems I'd been having. My Nexgen is hard to vent, I dive with the vent fully open. Previously, I had numerous uncontrolled ascents ( not feet first, can't help you there ) as I was trying to vent, but I was unable to vent quickly enough . I knew I had to vent, I could feel I had to vent, just couldn't do it fast enough. My BC is easy to vent. Another thing I started doing which has made a huge difference is that I make a consious decision to stop at 35ft on ascent. I dump everything I can in my suit. I have to " burp " with my arm, but this results in big burps of air from my suit. Make sure the valve (and your arm ) is the highest point when you are doing this. This has made a huge difference in my diving and I have not had an uncontrolled ascent since. I'm also able to hold at safety, at 10 ft and also 5ft if I choose. Also, I realized that, if you find yourself getting light, it's almost too late to vent. The key is to anticipate when to vent, on any ascent of any signifigance other than what your breathing can accomplish. Anticipate it, do it and life gets much easier, at least that's my experience.

Just re- reading your initial post. I vent before entering the water by squatting and opening my neck seal with a finger. If you are trying to vent air through your arm release valve, you may not be getting all of it.
( hard to vent valve ) Try it this way and , when you stand up, you should feel the squeeze ( it's not bad at all ) and you'll know if you got all/most out.

Not your original question re: crotch squeeze, but I think you need more air in your suit and some ankle weights 'till you sort out what works for you. Then, you'll lose the ankle weights, as I did.

Hope that helps a little.