Would you lend, or accept, a hand when diving?

[Marie13]

That qualifies for being a jerk (or something more rudely descriptive).

This attitude is not uncommon among tech divers. That’s where the nasty attitude I’ve encountered comes from. I’ve been called lazy, incompetent, and an unsafe diver because I needed assistance with gear or in/out of the water (primarily boat dives) due to my knee issues. I’m full cave, solo, and now CCR (mod 1). You don’t get to that point if you’re an unsafe diver.

ETA: can’t forget that some people actually accused me of faking the knee issues.

 

[tajkd]

I agree with all here. I'm 63 and I can't manage doubles anymore, or indeed, many tasks. Still it is important up front to speak with the DM and crew regarding tour capabilities and whether/not you need help and when. I, for instance, don't want a single hand on me when getting into the boat after a dive. I find it wrecks my equilibrium. Many crew have taken offense but better that than me falling.

 

[happy-diver]

A few months ago here I find myself in manifolded twins and all the associateds

see the skinny steps

somewhat steep and one person narrow

but hey a fin friendly ladder

Well this access is magnificent better than olden days and some sites of just rocks and dirt and mud

So there I am climbing full gear up the fin friendly ladder and half way up the diver in the water tells
me that I should have taken my fins off, being polite and using every last ounce I made the platform
you know, that last heave to get from the ladder to whatever you are climbing to, without comment
quickly fins off strapped to chest and up the ladder I go when a civilian up top, the ladder to the sky
asks if I need any help

It'd be great if you all stopped helping says I in such a tone that the civvy ran up here and drove off

 

[berndo]

This attitude is not uncommon among tech divers. That’s where the nasty attitude I’ve encountered comes from. I’ve been called lazy, incompetent, and an unsafe diver because I needed assistance with gear or in/out of the water (primarily boat dives) due to my knee issues. I’m full cave, solo, and now CCR (mod 1). You don’t get to that point if you’re an unsafe diver.

I have no issue with helping someone to get on shore or back onto the boat. Having said that, when your buddy can't get back onto the boat, you're essentially solo diving with extra responsibility, unless you're diving in a team of 3.
If it's just for single tank diving where you can take the weights off and hand the tank to someone, that's one thing, but I'm not looking to drag someone elses doubles or ccr up a ladder as I don't wanna screw my knees and back.

Having taken some class doesn't say anything about being a safe diver. Being a safe diver IMHO is dependent on level of skill and additude. Doesn't really matter whether you done a cave or ccr class. CCR especially doesn't add to safety in most cases, unless you're doing deep cave dive type stuff.

 

[lexvil]

This is actually a complicated question and not easy to answer ;

I will offer whatever help someone needs as the occasion calls for and accept help for things like the maddening soft sand step that can form at low tide when we have super calm like like conditions.

but

if I was being asked to help someone constantly, the same person who showed up unable to function with out help who also hasn’t made their own arrangements for such help, meaning a regular dive buddy sort of thing, I would be a bit put out, I accept my own risk of injury handling my own gear but to constantly doubling my risk is off putting.

this is just how I do life but once I can’t handle myself I’ll give up diving because I wouldn’t want to risk anyone else’s health for my entertainment.

if the OP’s situation I would go for the hip replacement and hope it works out, did it with my knee and was back diving in 33 days, I have a hip that has been nagging me lately but not enought to take the replacement step just yet.

getting old sucks, the alternative is not great.

short answer is, it depends.

 

[Marie13]

I have no issue with helping someone to get on shore or back onto the boat. Having said that, when your buddy can't get back onto the boat, you're essentially solo diving with extra responsibility, unless you're diving in a team of 3.
If it's just for single tank diving where you can take the weights off and hand the tank to someone, that's one thing, but I'm not looking to drag someone elses doubles or ccr up a ladder as I don't wanna screw my knees and back.

Having taken some class doesn't say anything about being a safe diver. Being a safe diver IMHO is dependent on level of skill and additude. Doesn't really matter whether you done a cave or ccr class. CCR especially doesn't add to safety in most cases, unless you're doing deep cave dive type stuff.

You’re exactly the type I’m referring to. You think someone needing help in/out of the water is an unsafe diver. Needing that help has absolutely nothing to do with how a diver reacts to emergencies underwater.

And yes, those classes do have a relation to not being an unsafe diver. If I reacted badly to emergency drills uw during class, you think I would have passed full cave or CCR?

 

[berndo]

You’re exactly the type I’m referring to. You think someone needing help in/out of the water is an unsafe diver. Needing that help has absolutely nothing to do with how a diver reacts to emergencies underwater.

So, if you're my buddy and can't get out of the water by yourself, how can you help me if I need help? Can you help me to get back on the boat or back on shore? Depending on the dive site and weather, getting in and out of the water can be the most dangerous part of the dive. Two of the worst cases of panic I've seen happened on the surface.
As I said (the part you missed), I have no issue with helping a buddy on single tank type dives. It does make the dive less safe though for both divers. When it comes to boat diving with doubles or cave diving where you have to haul your stuff over rocks or up a ladder, it's definitely less safe when you need a lot of help. I'm not hauling somebody's 120 lbs ccr or doubles rig up a ladder or out of a sump.

And yes, those classes do have a relation to not being an unsafe diver. If I reacted badly to emergency drills uw during class, you think I would have passed full cave or CCR?

People hardly ever fail these classes. Only because you passed a class doesn't make you a safe diver. Virtually all the people who got in accidents had passed a class for what they were doing. People cut corners, ignore all kinds of safe rules etc.

 

[boulderjohn]

So, if you're my buddy and can't get out of the water by yourself, how can you help me if I need help? Can you help me to get back on the boat or back on shore?

This is where my previous post on common sense comes into play. If you are diving with someone with physical limitations, then this is all taken into account during the planning portion of the dive. If you can't come to an agreement during the planning, you don't do the dive.

I did a week of diving in Cozumel with a fine diver who had hip problems that prevented him from getting on or off the boat without assistance. No problem. The operator knew that and provided that help. If I needed help, there were others who could help. If there were no others to help, our planning would have been different.

People with all manner of physical limitations dive--blind, paraplegic, etc. It is all a matter of understanding and planning.

 

[Imla]

So, if you're my buddy and can't get out of the water by yourself, how can you help me if I need help? Can you help me to get back on the boat or back on shore? Depending on the dive site and weather, getting in and out of the water can be the most dangerous part of the dive. Two of the worst cases of panic I've seen happened on the surface.
As I said (the part you missed), I have no issue with helping a buddy on single tank type dives. It does make the dive less safe though for both divers. When it comes to boat diving with doubles or cave diving where you have to haul your stuff over rocks or up a ladder, it's definitely less safe when you need a lot of help. I'm not hauling somebody's 120 lbs ccr or doubles rig up a ladder or out of a sump.

People hardly ever fail these classes. Only because you passed a class doesn't make you a safe diver. Virtually all the people who got in accidents had passed a class for what they were doing. People cut corners, ignore all kinds of safe rules etc.

Most likely, as with me, the issue is getting on board or on shore with a full set of gear.
If you were in trouble, I would ditch my gear and have no problems getting on shore or in the boat.
However... In a normal situation, giving me a balancing hand, and enabling me to carry my stuff to shore/on the boat on my own would be a lot simpler.


I am also a bit puzzled by those saying "I will not risk my health carrying/lifting your gear". Most of the cases this is not what is asked. If you help me lift my rig onto the pontoon of the boat, I will also help you lift your rig. Two people, lifting less weight gives less strain on both and more security for both.
Luckily, my buddies are way past the "need to prove their manliness" and will accept my help in lifting their stuff, and they in turn will lift my stuff. (oddly enough, that happened just around the time they all switched to rebreathers and realised that being two to lift stuff was smart)

 

[berndo]

Most likely, as with me, the issue is getting on board or on shore with a full set of gear.
If you were in trouble, I would ditch my gear and have no problems getting on shore or in the boat.

Huh? I'm 210 lbs. How are you going to help me to get out of the water if you can't get yourself of the water with gear on?

As I said twice already. I have no issue with helping somebody on easy single tank dives. When the person needs a lot of help I consider it a solo dive, which is fine with me under the right circumstances.
When somebody wants to dive a heavy ccr or doubles from a boat or in a sump, they need to be able to handle their own gear, otherwise it is a safety issue, for obvious reasons.
I'm not talking about giving a balancing hand.