Would you Encourage or Discourage your Child to Enlist?

[redacted]

and people have the gall to protest Israel's incursion into "Palestine," and the United States' prosecution of this war in Afghanistan as well as Iraq. Hard to believe that there are still pacifists who believe that standing down and hiding in a hole is going to make the terrorists stop. It will NOT make them stop.

I don't believe I've seen any serious objections, by Americans, to US actions in Afganistan. That was clearly an action to protect the US against terrorism. I believe the invasion of Iraq was initially justified in the name of neutralizing it's WMD capability and was not related to US counterterrorism actions.

 

[MikeFerrara]

The troublemakers did. Starting in the late 60's with hostage taking, hijackings, suicide bombings, the sinking of the USS Cole, and culminating in 911, where the ultimate fight was brought to us. And still, people are oblivious and continue to remain asleep, anesthetized by their fast food, electronic toys, minivans, Dockers, and shopping at Old Navy and The Gap. 5,000 civilians murdered, and people have the gall to protest Israel's incursion into "Palestine," and the United States' prosecution of this war in Afghanistan as well as Iraq. Hard to believe that there are still pacifists who believe that standing down and hiding in a hole is going to make the terrorists stop. It will NOT make them stop.

You are right. We had several thousand civilians killed in 9/11, yet there is no war going on in Iraq. Let's not forget that those who flew the planes into those buildings learned to fly in this country. We let them in and there are more of them here learning physics, biology and chemestry. We aren't fighting in Iraq. Our people are being shot at while they are there trying to "win hearts and minds". Meanwhile the Iraq government tries to decide how long their vacation is going to be! I'd give them a vacation. I'd tell them we're going home for two months and if they're still alive when we get back then it's their turn.

You are right though. People let this continue because they have their comforts and don't stand to lose much. I'm not really a pacifist. If there has to be a fight then let's fight it and win! This isn't a war. It's politics with sacrificial targets being offered up.

 

[MikeFerrara]

And thank you.

Nothing irks me more than someone that joins the military then complains when they have to do what they supposedly joined for.

There was a time when I would have agreed with you. But you have to understand that when I grew up we faught and nobody cared. Now days, kids end up in court if they are anything but an honest to goodness girly-man. Of course, these days rather than punching a bully in the nose they take a gun to school and kill 20 or 30 people.

The military recruiters have free run of our schools (where we have a zero tolerance violence policy) and their audience is a bunch of kids who were raised in this climate of phoney extreme nonviolence. What the hell do they know about what they are joining for? They've never even been in a school yard fist fight. How could they possibly have any idea? They should make them do some fighting before they take the oath.

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

This isn't a war in the conventional sense. You're absolutely right. It's not a war with an established front line, and with the enemy running around in their own uniforms. It's not cut and dried like it was in WWII, and we aren't prepared to inflict the kind of damage on whole cities and populations like we did in WWII, so as such, victory is not going to be decisive, with victor and defeated sitting down together in Geneva to sign a peace treaty. This is messy, it's going to get messier, and it's going to continue for a damn long time. Maybe the only measure of victory is the fact that we haven't had anymore terrorist attacks on our soil since 9/11. I don't know how else to measure something so shadowy.

 

[redacted]

This isn't a war in the conventional sense. You're absolutely right. It's not a war with an established front line, and with the enemy running around in their own uniforms. It's not cut and dried like it was in WWII, and we aren't prepared to inflict the kind of damage on whole cities and populations like we did in WWII, so as such, victory is not going to be decisive, with victor and defeated sitting down together in Geneva to sign a peace treaty. This is messy, it's going to get messier, and it's going to continue for a damn long time. Maybe the only measure of victory is the fact that we haven't had anymore terrorist attacks on our soil since 9/11. I don't know how else to measure something so shadowy.

I believe it is best called a civil war.

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

I'm not talking about Iraq. I think it's best called a world war. So far, nations on every continent are involved. The sooner the West wakes up to the fact that it IS a world war, the sooner we'll quit politicizing things and let the military handle military business. Period.

 

[Cacia]

What the hell do they know about what they are joining for?

thats why it is important to let your "kids" have unstructured "play" time off the school yard, taking the bus, playing basketball in the "ghetto" maybe doing some not so safe activities. AND talk to them about the news, what is going on. I've shown mine some pretty graphic pictures of executed bodies in the name of helping them *know* to some extent what is going on out there. That is a parent's job. Would I turn them over to the government before I had "indoctrinated" them myself? Absolutely not. They are free to think whatever they like, but I got my two cents in and put them through their paces.
Your job is to raise adults, not better, bigger kids.

They have both been in my very special boot camp for quite a few years now.

Maybe the only measure of victory is the fact that we haven't had anymore terrorist attacks on our soil

People will look back and realize what that was worth....

 

[MikeFerrara]

This isn't a war in the conventional sense. You're absolutely right. It's not a war with an established front line, and with the enemy running around in their own uniforms. It's not cut and dried like it was in WWII, and we aren't prepared to inflict the kind of damage on whole cities and populations like we did in WWII, so as such, victory is not going to be decisive, with victor and defeated sitting down together in Geneva to sign a peace treaty. This is messy, it's going to get messier, and it's going to continue for a damn long time.

Yes.

Maybe the only measure of victory is the fact that we haven't had anymore terrorist attacks on our soil since 9/11. I don't know how else to measure something so shadowy.

I don't agree. Every attack in this country has been by citizens or those we willingly allowed into this country. Not only that but attacks of any kind are infrequent enough that going a few years without one probably isn't the least bit statistically significant.

But wait, how do we want to define terrorism? Should we include school shooting or city gang shootings on school busses?

We'd save more lives if we deployed the marines to Chicago.

 

[cdiver2]

There was a time when I would have agreed with you. But you have to understand that when I grew up we faught and nobody cared. Now days, kids end up in court if they are anything but an honest to goodness girly-man. Of course, these days rather than punching a bully in the nose they take a gun to school and kill 20 or 30 people.

The military recruiters have free run of our schools (where we have a zero tolerance violence policy) and their audience is a bunch of kids who were raised in this climate of phoney extreme nonviolence. What the hell do they know about what they are joining for? They've never even been in a school yard fist fight. How could they possibly have any idea? They should make them do some fighting before they take the oath.

This I can not comment on as like you I had my fair share of fights growing up.

When I joined the military NI was in full swing and I knew I would probably have to go some time but I wanted to go to the exotic locations, Hong Kong, Belize etc, etc. I never did get to an exotic location but I did do 3 out of six years service in NI and a tour in Cyprus when that hit the fan.

I don't mind service personnel moaning about equipment, food etc but not the war, there is a lot more going on than they or we see.

 

[Cacia]

Should we include school shooting or city gang shootings on school busses?

okay, now you lost me. *NO* we would not include them becuase that would be stupid Gangs shoot each other over drugs and you want to compare that to people in office buildings and civilians on planes? A mentally ill kid on a shooting rampage has not set forth a serious organized threat to defeat us and ruin our economic system. No offense, but wake up. An organized concerted effort is underway. Don't take my word for it, listen to what Al Queda says.