Would you dive with this op?

[nodakdive]

Fwiw, maybe the best thing you could do with this is let the Dive Operator know what happened. If I'm understanding correctly, the breakdown happened as a result of the DM. For whatever reason, that person elected to barely rebrief you instead of telling the captain to move the boat. Anyhow, the Operator doesn't know about this stuff unless someone tells them and if they're any good, they want to know. They can talk to the DM, ask them why X happened, and take steps to insure that it doesn't happen again.

Though I believe you had every right to expect to be taken to an "easy" site, I would gently note as others have, you're probably a great example of someone that should get a private DM to start your trip if you go again with that same buddy or any buddy that's nervous. None of the south sites to 80 feet should throw a wrench into the plans, and if it does, that means your buddy isn't ready to dive without supervision, imho.

So, you tried to compensate by pre arranging, and it should have "worked", but even with that it sounds like the step further, a private DM, is/was the way to go. I'm also a fan of shops that have been around awhile and have DMs and Captains that have been there a long time. "We've been diving with DM X for 7 years at shop Y!", says a lot.

-Blair

 

[Mossman]

I hate the "it's Mexico" so don't expect safe diving. If I thought diving in Cozumel was not safe I would not go there. Why would you? My experiences have always been great if it wasn't good, we would not keep going back.

That said, unsafe dive practices have a better chance to to flourish in countries where personal injury laws and enforcement of safety regulations may be laxer than in the U.S. The unwary diver who travels to Cozumel and picks a dive op at random may very well end up on a panga with an unreliable engine, no radio or O2, and a "DM" that got his credentials in a cracker jack box. But, as in most developed places around the world, it is easy to find a safe dive shop with minimal research effort.

 

[judydivescoz]

That said, unsafe dive practices have a better chance to to flourish in countries where personal injury laws and enforcement of safety regulations may be laxer than in the U.S. The unwary diver who travels to Cozumel and picks a dive op at random may very well end up on a panga with an unreliable engine, no radio or O2, and a "DM" that got his credentials in a cracker jack box. But, as in most developed places around the world, it is easy to find a safe dive shop with minimal research effort.

Don't the liability release that all US and other litigious countries limit if not eliminate compensation from negligence of an op? Seems to me that suing a dive OP would only benefit the lawyers involved.
I can't imagine blindly picking a dive OP in any country. There are to many resources available to gather information.

 

[flots am]

Just curious, what level of training would you suggest in order to be able to competently air share with someone single file, 6' away, with a 40" hose?

The kind of training that would teach the diver that a 40" hose and a single tank is inappropriate for a single file overhead.

---------- Post added April 24th, 2014 at 10:13 PM ----------

Armchair quarterbacking is easy - here's my contribution...

At the point where it was revealed to you that you were at the wall, "Whoa, back the truck up. I told you guys we wanted an easy dive and we were just at one. Take us back there or cancel this and all the rest of our diving." I'm willing to bet that every diver still on board would have stood with you; I know I would have.

Yep. I did that on GC. Told the DM/captain that he could go wherever he felt like, but my new-diver buddy and I weren't getting off the boat unless it was easy and shallow with a bottom in OW range.

A young woman not with us, who had just started diving had almost been in tears over the thought of the wall dive, and gave me a big hug.

We went back to the perfectly good reef we had just left.

The DM was apparently bored and just didn't want to do it again, so he stayed on the boat for the second dive (made me happy).

 

[Lost Sailor]

PS - thank you for standing up and naming the dive operator

Mike - I actually read one of your posts from a week ago or so where you noted the need to identify questionable dive operators - that post motivated me to point out this situation (which again, I will stress is more commercial than anything else). Trust me, I learned a couple of lessons.

---------- Post added April 24th, 2014 at 10:28 PM ----------

Hey, Lost, I agree with you. If you prearranged what you wanted, you should have got that. Sure there are alot of voting on boat about what site to dive but those boats should not promise you anything. If your boat was going to do that, but promised you a nice shallow site with no wall and then dumped you somewhere else without a briefing, I think you got a right to be ticked off about it.

The whole 'don't get in the water if you don't like it' bit comes after you didn't get what you were promised. I agree it is unacceptable.

Sure they are a cattle boat op, but that doesn't make it your fault they did not deliver what they promised. Don't let anyone tell you different!

Thank you, that's my point. I take responsibility for everything that happened after, I just don't like getting sold a bill of sale when we are dealing with what is a serious sport.

 

[lionfish-eater]

Every new coz diver should have to spend at least one day on a cattle boat with a cookie cutter dive op before they are allowed to use a "boutique" op, just so they really appreciate the difference.

 

[Mike]

I hate the "it's Mexico" so don't expect safe diving. If I thought diving in Cozumel was not safe I would not go there. Why would you? My experiences have always been great if it wasn't good, we would not keep going back.

If that's in regard to what I said, let me clarify that I didn't mean to make that connection, to me "it's Mexico" is in regard to fleecing the dollar out of Americans here and there, not about safety, in fact I believe and have said maybe not on this forum but other ones here that Cozumel's dive community is one of the most experienced I've ever had the pleasure to dive with. No where have I ever met dive masters with 10,000 dives and more other than Cozumel, many places I've dived the dive community is very transient and monumentally less experienced than in Cozumel. However, my experiences are also possibly tainted in that I like to dive with the best (Aldora) so maybe that has something to do with it.

---------- Post added April 24th, 2014 at 09:11 PM ----------

Mike - I actually read one of your posts from a week ago or so where you noted the need to identify questionable dive operators - that post motivated me to point out this situation (which again, I will stress is more commercial than anything else). Trust me, I learned a couple of lessons.

Well, thanks for stepping up and doing so, its just as valuable if not more valuable to have the rah rah reports raving about this dive op and that dive op tempered with the good and the bad. Accountability benefits the dive community more sometimes than just the rah rah stuff.

 

[Mossman]

Don't the liability release that all US and other litigious countries limit if not eliminate compensation from negligence of an op? Seems to me that suing a dive OP would only benefit the lawyers involved.
I can't imagine blindly picking a dive OP in any country. There are to many resources available to gather information.

In the U.S. it depends on the state. Most states will find them enforceable regarding ordinary negligence, but not gross negligence, so U.S. dive shops carry insurance to potentially defend them in litigation at the very least.

I can't imagine blindly picking a dive op either, but I see the results of it on Scubaboard all the time.

---------- Post added April 24th, 2014 at 08:26 PM ----------

The kind of training that would teach the diver that a 40" hose and a single tank is inappropriate for a single file overhead.

So it's not about the training to you, it's about the equipment.

How many divers have died in Cozumel swimthroughs recently from being unable to share air?

 

[SurprisedOutlet]

WOW this thread got big! I just wanted to add some more details to my post and hopefully not detract from the thread.

My fiance and I were certified last year in Cozumel. We only had our 4 cert dives prior to this trip. I planned our diving so that the first 2 days we could do several shore dives to get our weighting correct and get used to our new equipment. We did 3 shore dives in those 2 days. Those shore dives were just what we needed to practice skills and learn how to use our new computers. So now we had 7 dives logged.

The first dive at Santa Rosa wall, we were more excited than anything since we really wanted to do that dive while we were there. Our dive OP was Babieca, and I can't say enough about their service. The DM knew we were new, and knew we had done the shore dives. He asked us to stay close to him and he asked for our tank pressure regularly through the dive. The swimthroughs were small and we could have easily just swam around but we felt comfortable so we did them. When either of us hit 700psi, he floated his SMB and we went up. The boat was right there to get us and the rest of the divers surfaced as they depleted their tanks.

Both of us were completely comfortable with all of our dives that week and we never felt anything was "wreckless".

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that several factors made a difference between our experience and the OP's.

1. Some people are more comfortable in the water than others.

2. Those shore dives made a HUGE difference. I would not want to have to deal with weighting or equipment issues on a wall dive.

3. A good dive OP is important.

 

[ggunn]

-Thank you, that's my point. I take responsibility for everything that happened after, I just don't like getting sold a bill of sale when we are dealing with what is a serious sport.

I wish I could remember who first told me, "Never attribute to malice that which can adequately explained by stupidity". I don't think you were taken advantage of; it is more likely that the DM didn't know about your request or just plain forgot about it. The op didn't stand to gain anything by the change in venue.

My wife and I will be on Cozumel tomorrow, diving on Sunday. We haven't been diving in nearly a year. We will want to start off easy; I will ask for that and constantly remind the op of it as necessary before we hit the water. Of course, the op knows us well and it won't be a problem. I agree with others who have said that your chances of getting what you want/need would have been better if you had been diving with a small boat op and/or a private DM, but obviously that is hindsight.