Would you dive with this op?

[flots am]

Just a couple of notes:

My point: I did 11 dives in Cozumel without ever being in a situation where I, about as nervous as they come, was in a situation where I felt uncomfortable. (I didn't love the swim throughs, but when I told her that, she promised to keep them wide and where you could always see the light from the exit.

If for example, you ran out of air in the swim-through, or had your mask knocked off, could you handle it safely? Could you do an air-share inside? These aren't likely problems, and I'm not saying you can or can't handle it, just that they're definitely possible and need to be considered in light of your personal risk tolerance.

Still didn't love them, but as Christi points out- it's a group dive and if I don't have a private DM, you have to go with the group.) I never went below 75 feet, and could have stayed at 60 if I really wanted to. Most dives the current was minimal.

You're certified to dive with a buddy. Your buddy, not a group. Being in a group is useful for protection in public, but pretty much useless underwater. You need a buddy you can rely on (or be self-reliant with your own backup equipment). Also, the DM can't help you unless you happen to be within a few feet.

You never need to follow anybody inside anything where you couldn't handle an emergency with just you, and possibly your buddy. You can always swim around instead of through.

Being "comfortable" isn't an indication of being safe; many times it's just an indication of not understanding the risks.

flots

 

[Mike]

My problem is that I went over our needs for two and a half days - even the guide thought we were going to the right spot since that is what he briefed and then no explanation the management. And again, the three other dives (was hoping for 8-10, but c'est la vie) would have been perfect for a beginning diver; I knew where we should have been and that is what the dive shop promised, but didn't deliver - and this isn't golf.

Hey, I feel your pain, I don't want to let them off with a rationalization, but unfortunately, and I get heat for my bad attitude about stuff like this, but it's MEXICO. They love the tourist dollars and unfortunately there are some of them that simply adopt the 'I'll tell you what you want to hear to get your money and it's easier to ask for forgiveness later than permission before' attitude. Not everyone is like that, but there certainly are plenty that are. There is a subtle way to phrase questions in Mexico that makes a big difference in the outcomes. But to hear a tourist trap dive op in Mexico told you what you wanted to hear to make sure they got your business and then didn't deliver doesn't surprises me too much.

PS - thank you for standing up and naming the dive operator

 

[Sue Sue]

Jazz-fan - whatever you do, don't let my post scare you away from Cozumel. I love the island, love the people and love the diving, I just made a mistake on the last trip. It's a commercial issue that I have with one operator - I went to the shop over two and a half days to make sure that we would be going to the right spots, I chose afternoons in order to avoid the deeper dives, and the guide briefed the right dive because that's what everyone getting on the boat expected - the change didn't come until we were going into the water. Whatever the nature of the sport, that is simply unacceptable.

My only other experience on Cozumel is with Dive with Martin and it was such a better time.

I understand that you were and still are very disappointed and your friend, being a newbie, was not happy with your recent Cozumel dive experience. But, baseline, your plan simply did not work out the way you both had hoped. As THEY say, "It happens", but, now you know. Please convey to your friend or have her read these comments herself in hopes that she will give Cozumel another try. As said, Cozumel is fine for beginners. Get a private Divemaster for at the least the first day or two and go with a Valet/Boutique Dive OP. Also, you could, perhaps, take a class in buoyancy skill or drift diving as this would most likely get her one on one instruction.

I hope you and yours give Cozumel another try. As I always recommend, read recent trip/Dive Op reviews posted here on Scubaboard then choose your top 5 "Best" list. From this list, contact each choice with your questions and concerns. Once you settle on your dive op, choose your hotel location as some dive ops do not pick up at certain piers.

Chalk it up to experience and Best Wishes that the next time will be much better !

SS

 

[Skittl1321]

If for example, you ran out of air in the swim-through, or had your mask knocked off, could you handle it safely? Could you do an air-share inside? These aren't likely problems, but definitely possible.

Yes, these things would have been possible because the DM took my needs into consideration and we only went through wide area (I however, was the only person on the boat who voted no- so to stay out of them I would have had to just not dive at all, which I chose not to do), and as such I could swim either SBS or just above/below my buddy at all times. So yes, I could have done an air share with my buddy, who was always close by- and I've been trained in no mask swimming, as I think everyone is who is certified. And it's a skill I have practiced since then, since I really hate it. (I also hold my mask/reg whenever there is someone swimming right in front of me, because I'm paranoid.) If on the boat she hadn't told me we'd only do wide, well light swim throughs, I wouldn't have gotten in the water.

You're certified to dive with a buddy. Your buddy, not a group.

Where did I say I wasn't with my buddy? Unlike many people who dive 'same ocean' buddies, my buddy was rarely more than an arms reach away, and then within a fin kick.

Also, the DM can't help you unless you happen to be within a few feet.

At the beginning of the week, it was rare that she wasn't. My buddy always was though.

You can always swim around instead of through.

I really do not see this as good advice. Someone who has never been in the area before- how will I know where 'around' ends in comparison to the swim through? The reef structures are quite large. Rank beginners would end up lost.

 

[Ron Lee]

paranoid.)

"You can always swim around instead of through."

I really do not see this as good advice. Someone who has never been in the area before- how will I know where 'around' ends in comparison to the swim through? The reef structures are quite large. Rank beginners would end up lost.

Good point. Which is why hiring a private DM the first day to teach you the skills needed to do this can be beneficial. A newbie diver should stay with their buddy. If one does not want to do swim throughs, both stay out at least one should be able to follow bubbles and know how to get to a point to rejoin the group.

I am a proponent of acquiring the experience and confidence to safely complete/terminate a dive solo. I also believe that the PADI Rescue Diver course or equivalent is worth taking.

 

[cvchief]

Jazz-fan - whatever you do, don't let my post scare you away from Cozumel. I love the island, love the people and love the diving, I just made a mistake on the last trip. It's a commercial issue that I have with one operator - I went to the shop over two and a half days to make sure that we would be going to the right spots, I chose afternoons in order to avoid the deeper dives, and the guide briefed the right dive because that's what everyone getting on the boat expected - the change didn't come until we were going into the water. Whatever the nature of the sport, that is simply unacceptable.

My only other experience on Cozumel is with Dive with Martin and it was such a better time.

Hey, Lost, I agree with you. If you prearranged what you wanted, you should have got that. Sure there are alot of voting on boat about what site to dive but those boats should not promise you anything. If your boat was going to do that, but promised you a nice shallow site with no wall and then dumped you somewhere else without a briefing, I think you got a right to be ticked off about it.

The whole 'don't get in the water if you don't like it' bit comes after you didn't get what you were promised. I agree it is unacceptable.

Sure they are a cattle boat op, but that doesn't make it your fault they did not deliver what they promised. Don't let anyone tell you different!

 

[Mossman]

85' depth + wall dive + new to currents + overhead environment for a new diver is a lot of task loading. Santa Rosa can be a relatively easy dive and it can also be quite challenging, for a new diver making their first open ocean dives after certification I think it was reckless. I am hardly a rule hound, but that seems reckless to me.

You make it sound like it's all at once.

They did shore dives and they were certified in Cozumel, so they weren't "new to currents". On my Cozumel wall dives, the dive op usually gets the group together and makes sure everyone is OK before heading over the wall. Inside the swimthroughs, there's usually no current and the "wall" part is immaterial. It's likely they weren't at 85' in the swimthroughs either.

So you have an hour dive that reaches a max of 85', may have some current, and a few swimthroughs which really don't qualify as "overhead" and you call that task loading? Sure, if they were also carrying cameras and performing DIR drills and navigating back to the boat. But two certified divers following a DM in warm clear water really isn't too difficult. It's certainly not reckless.

Maybe it's perspective. Three of my four certification dives were at Cortes Banks and my first post-certification dive was a night drysuit dive in cold water off San Clemente Island to 66' where I got separated from the group, got a bad case of alternobaric vertigo, and ended up doing an uncontrollable ascent that left me puking on the surface with a long swim back to the boat. So I honestly don't feel a warm clear water daytime dive to 85' following a DM is reckless, nope I don't. YMMV.

---------- Post added April 24th, 2014 at 11:43 AM ----------

Don't worry about that, I am booked and going anyway. (BTW I hope I didn't hijack your posting too much)! I just really didn't want to have a repeat of your experience. And before reading this I was all but ready to go out on the water with Pro Dive. Thanks to all for the advice.

I am not really so much concerned about myself. My wife has always been kind of uneasy about scuba anyway, and this means that my dive buddy is typically not interested in going, which means that more often than not I don't get to dive much. Probably need to be less anti-social and try to make some new friends. But in any case her biggest problem is the 10-20' visibility that we get locally and cold temperatures make her feel claustrophobic. She is excited about Cozumel and I am hoping its all good experiences or I will lose her in the water with me forever.

If she's uneasy, I'd take her somewhere else. Currents and bottomless walls and swimthroughs can be overwhelming to some. There are people who consider taking new divers diving on popular Cozumel reefs to be "reckless".

 

[cvchief]

alternobaric vertigo, .

Wow, that is like the word of the day.....

 

[Mossman]

Wow, that is like the word of the day.....

Two words, if you're counting.

 

[flots am]

I really do not see this as good advice. Someone who has never been in the area before- how will I know where 'around' ends in comparison to the swim through? The reef structures are quite large. Rank beginners would end up lost.

That's certainly your call, however if you ever find yourself in an overhead with a problem and just OW training, you'll be wishing you had done the "swim over/around" Looking for your DM in Open Water is far preferable to suddenly discovering you need an air share with someone single file, 6' away, with a 40" hose.

However, I'm not your keeper and you're free to do anything that's within your risk tolerance and capabilities.

Also, your DM was apparently good. DM capabilities and care-level runs the spectrum from "Protects you like their own child" to "Not so much"