Would you dive with this op?

[Zman96]

Moss,
There doesn't have to be an arbitrary number, rather the assessment of ones skills after a couple of dives is the generally accepted criteria. DM's are not their babysitter if they haven't contracted a private DM. I do realize buoyancy is more challenging shallower, but trying to maintain buoyancy and proper depth while being new is where I have the issues. I am sure they didn't drop them straight into the blue, but judging ones skills in just a couple of minutes of descending would not be thorough enough in my opinion. Attitude can be everything it can also be what hurts/ kills you. In their case they were too new to know what they were doing was probably on the dangerous side. We have all seen overly cocky fully confident divers with 100's of dives on the boat and they are the first ones to have issues or problems. Being comfortable and confident in ones skills while still respecting the sport after honing ones skills is very different than somebody with 6 shore dives confidence.
Fyi when I said I was amped, I meant excited to be back in the water not nervous but thanks for the advice. I know my excitement that I feel on the first back roll of the trip is very different than the first giant stride I did on my first boat dive in Cozumel

 

[Mike]

While I agree with the sentiment, the problem is he was promised something else.

That's the crux of the issue.

Got the old Mexican "Si Senor" to any question asked routine.

 

[turt1e]

Here, the diver ordered a Cozumel boat dive and got a Cozumel boat dive. They supplied two tanks, weights, a dive guide, and a boat ride exactly as promised.

Except apparently they also promised a shallow dive site.

 

[flots am]

How many dives do you believe a diver should have before doing a dive without a hard bottom?

More than 4.

 

[cvchief]

They supplied two tanks, weights, a dive guide, and a boat ride exactly as promised.

And there is where the facts posted by the OP and you diverge.

When I order my burger with no pickles because I can't stand pickles, they always leave the pickles on. Well, not always, maybe 85% of the time. Do I post nasty reviews on Yelp? Nope, I just pick off the pickles.

Though she has mellowed a tad, the missus would have had a new burger without pickles. Period.

Apparently pickles aren't important to you. To him they were.

Its like that rule on no Cuban cigars. Period.

 

[Mossman]

Except apparently they also promised a shallow dive site.

"Special orders don't upset us" except that they still put the damn pickles on there.

---------- Post added April 25th, 2014 at 01:11 PM ----------

Apparently pickles aren't important to you. To him they were.

Then he shouldn't have eaten any. It's a lot easier to take your order back and get a refund if you haven't already chowed down the burger.

---------- Post added April 25th, 2014 at 01:20 PM ----------

There doesn't have to be an arbitrary number, rather the assessment of ones skills after a couple of dives is the generally accepted criteria. DM's are not their babysitter if they haven't contracted a private DM. I do realize buoyancy is more challenging shallower, but trying to maintain buoyancy and proper depth while being new is where I have the issues. I am sure they didn't drop them straight into the blue, but judging ones skills in just a couple of minutes of descending would not be thorough enough in my opinion. Attitude can be everything it can also be what hurts/ kills you. In their case they were too new to know what they were doing was probably on the dangerous side. We have all seen overly cocky fully confident divers with 100's of dives on the boat and they are the first ones to have issues or problems. Being comfortable and confident in ones skills while still respecting the sport after honing ones skills is very different than somebody with 6 shore dives confidence.
Fyi when I said I was amped, I meant excited to be back in the water not nervous but thanks for the advice. I know my excitement that I feel on the first back roll of the trip is very different than the first giant stride I did on my first boat dive in Cozumel

I thought the assessment of skills after a dive or two only relates to taking divers to the "advanced" sites. Not that it happened to me. My first time at Devil's Throat was my first time diving with that op.

In any case, the assessment is on-going. If the DM saw the new divers dropping to 200' midway through the dive, he would hopefully go after them and remind them to check their depth gauges. However, in many cases, new divers are the best at frequently checking their gauges because they're so nervous about running out of air or straying too deep.

No, the DM wasn't hired on as a private DM, but this fact doesn't prevent him from acting as a babysitter if necessary. I've seen lots of DMs act as babysitters when they weren't paid to be private DMs. It's part of the job IMO when you get new divers diving bottomless walls in strong currents as often happens in Cozumel.

The average Cozumel DM has lots and lots of dives, many of them with beginners. They are (or should be) very good at assessing a diver's skill within a few minutes. It's really not that hard. As you say, having hundreds of dives doesn't necessarily make a problem-free diver. Likewise, some divers prove to have excellent skills before they're even certified.

 

[turt1e]

"Special orders don't upset us" except that they still put the damn pickles on there.

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me" However you seem to think it's more like "Fool me once, shame on me." The OP never got to the twice part... Now he knows though. And thanks to him so do we in regards to this particular dive op.

Then he shouldn't have eaten any. It's a lot easier to take your order back and get a refund if you haven't already chowed down the burger.

Except as far as we know he didn't ask for a refund. He even took full responsibility for continuing the dive and acknowledged that his buddy's ear issue was not the fault of the dive op. He was just pissed that after several reassurances that they would be diving a shallow site they still ended up on a wall dive.

But since you seem to like burger analogies.... It's like going up to the counter and stating you want your burger with tomatoes, and they tell you tomatoes are no problem. You double check to make sure they have tomatoes and they say yes they have tomatoes. You can see the guy preparing your burger, and you make a point to ask him if he was told you want tomatoes, and he acknowledges that yes he is going to put tomatoes on it. Great! You sit down open the wrapper and see no tomatoes, but sure as hell there is a pickle on there instead. And somehow it is magically fused to the burger and you can't remove it without destroying the burger. Being extremely hungry and not wanting to get back in line and deal with apparently an establishment that can't follow simple directions, you opt to just eat the burger with a pickle on it.

 

[Mossman]

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me" However you seem to think it's more like "Fool me once, shame on me." The OP never got to the twice part... Now he knows though. And thanks to him so do we in regards to this particular dive op.

Actually it was twice. The OP said "I went with the same op out of the Allegro last year; not the best experience, but decided to give them another shot."

Now he knows twice.

However, what do "we" really know about this particular dive op? PADI likes it enough to give it 5 stars and it trains many instructors besides taking a lot of divers out to dive, presumably rather safely or they'd have a worse reputation.

All "we" have is a single anecdote. If that's how you base your decisions, so be it.

Except as far as we know he didn't ask for a refund. He even took full responsibility for continuing the dive and acknowledged that his buddy's ear issue was not the fault of the dive op. He was just pissed that after several reassurances that they would be diving a shallow site they still ended up on a wall dive.

But since you seem to like burger analogies.... It's like going up to the counter and stating you want your burger with tomatoes, and they tell you tomatoes are no problem. You double check to make sure they have tomatoes and they say yes they have tomatoes. You can see the guy preparing your burger, and you make a point to ask him if he was told you want tomatoes, and he acknowledges that yes he is going to put tomatoes. Great! You sit down open the wrapper and see no tomatoes, but sure as hell there is a pickle on there instead. Not wanting to get back in line and deal with apparently an establishment that can't follow simple directions, he opts to just eat the burger with a pickle on it.

If you like that analogy better, so be it. The fact is, the guy ate the burger anyway.

 

[cvchief]

PADI likes it enough to give it 5 stars

Yea, but there aren't 1, 2, 3 and 4 stars are there? It is 5 or nothing? Put you dollar in, get 5 stars?

---------- Post added April 25th, 2014 at 07:57 PM ----------

If you like that analogy better, so be it. The fact is, the guy ate the burger anyway.

And just for clarity, if he sat on the boat and didn't dive, you would be ok with him being ticked? THEN the dive op would be wrong and not the burger eater?

 

[ggunn]

"Special orders don't upset us" except that they still put the damn pickles on there.

That was Burger King. I once stood in line at a BK and let the line back up behind me while they remade my hamburger 4 or 5 times, and it wasn't a complicated order. Any other place I would have just taken it and fixed it myself, but their annoying TV commercial blitz with that inane jingle made such a big deal about it I wasn't about to let them off the hook.