Would you dive with this op?

[boulderjohn]

PADI likes it enough to give it 5 stars and it trains many instructors besides taking a lot of divers out to dive, presumably rather safely or they'd have a worse reputation.

Yea, but there aren't 1, 2, 3 and 4 stars are there? It is 5 or nothing? Put you dollar in, get 5 stars?

I was asked by someone to step in and provide some clarification about this. The PADI 5 star rating is not in fact a rating of its quality in the sense that it is better than a 4 star rating, which does not exist. It is also true that a 5 Star member must pay dues to have that rating. It is not, however, true that the rating is merely for sale; certain quality standards must be maintained. It is not like PADI is checking your every move. In addition, one of the requirements of a 5 star center is that they offer only PADI instruction. Thus, a superb center that offers instruction for several agencies is ineligible for that rating.

Thus, a 5 star rating is an indication of a level of quality, but it does not imply greatness.

 

[Mossman]

Thus, a 5 star rating is an indication of a level of quality, but it does not imply greatness.

It must "exceed the standard for other dive centers in the market" -- PADI Retailer Association Membership Standards, p. 10
https://www.padi.com/scuba/uploadedFiles/Home/Open_a_Dive_Shop/PRA Standards - new centers.pdf

So the question is, does Pro Dive exceed the standard for other dive centers in Cozumel?

 

[boulderjohn]

It must "exceed the standard for other dive centers in the market" -- PADI Retailer Association Membership Standards, p. 10
https://www.padi.com/scuba/uploadedFiles/Home/Open_a_Dive_Shop/PRA Standards - new centers.pdf

So the question is, does Pro Dive exceed the standard for other dive centers in Cozumel?

Let's be realistic. How is that measured? Do you think they are sending out a team to do a thorough analysis of every operation in every part of the world once a year to make a comparison to make sure an applicant is clearly there to begin with and maintains that level forever?

Once an operator achieves that level, there will have to be contrary reports to cause that to come to an end.

I don't know diddly squat about this particular operation. I'm just fulfilling a request to explain the rating.

 

[Mike]

It must "exceed the standard for other dive centers in the market" -- PADI Retailer Association Membership Standards, p. 10
https://www.padi.com/scuba/uploadedFiles/Home/Open_a_Dive_Shop/PRA Standards - new centers.pdf

So the question is, does Pro Dive exceed the standard for other dive centers in Cozumel?

You're trying to imply that the measuring stick is something like, service quality or experience, PADI sets the standards and defines them for their levels of membership and those things you're implying are not part of the standards.

To go from a "Dive Center" to a "5 star Dive Center" you have to offer education and it's actually defined as "full range of education" as one of the criteria. So that's one of the standards for "exceeding the standard for other dive centers"

If your dive shop is offering the full range of PADI education, and another dive shop is not, then PADI qualifies you as exceeding the standard of the other dive shop.

A PADI 5 star dive center is only the 2nd rung in a 4 rung ladder and is not the top.

 

[Mossman]

Let's be realistic. How is that measured? Do you think they are sending out a team to do a thorough analysis of every operation in every part of the world once a year to make a comparison to make sure an applicant is clearly there to begin with and maintains that level forever?

As long as the dues and certifications keeping coming in, why bother?

Once an operator achieves that level, there will have to be contrary reports to cause that to come to an end.

Like the one reported here? Well, OP, you were asking whom you should write. Remind them in the letter that the PADI 5 Star "seal of approval" was your major reason for using Pro Dive and you were aghast at their safety standards, that next time you'll try an SSI shop instead. I'd be curious to see if they'd reply.

 

[Ron Lee]

Like the one reported here? Well, OP, you were asking whom you should write. Remind them in the letter that the PADI 5 Star "seal of approval" was your major reason for using Pro Dive and you were aghast at their safety standards, that next time you'll try an SSI shop instead. I'd be curious to see if they'd reply.

Does anyone believe that this event was so egregious as to reprimand the dive op? I don't but the dive op I use took me to Maracaibo on the first dive and the Eagle Ray dive next on my FIRST dives of a trip. I had a rental BC, guessed what weight I needed and it took me a minute or so to refresh my skills adequately to not be a danger to others.

 

[cvchief]

Does anyone believe that this event was so egregious as to reprimand the dive op? I don't but the dive op I use took me to Maracaibo on the first dive and the Eagle Ray dive next on my FIRST dives of a trip. I had a rental BC, guessed what weight I needed and it took me a minute or so to refresh my skills adequately to not be a danger to others.

Sure. That could have been the end of his dive buddy's diving. So sure it warrants a complaint for failure to deliver on a promise.

On the other hand, in your case, maybe Dave was trying to tell you something.

 

[Ron Lee]

Sure. That could have been the end of his dive buddy's diving. So sure it warrants a complaint for failure to deliver on a promise.

On the other hand, in your case, maybe Dave was trying to tell you something.

No doubt the private dive master point has been discussed and in hindsight I suspect that the OP would hire one if he could do it over. The private DM idea is one that I blatantly and shamelessly stole from the Blue XTSea website.

I do not agree with the notion that Cozumel is a bad dive destination for newly certified divers. A private DM is an excellent idea for perhaps most new divers to the area. I came up with a notional skills development plan perhaps last year. I do not know if I can find it here again but there are many things that a new diver should learn quickly to not only enhance their skill at the RECREATIONAL activity (not a sport) of scuba diving.

It also is a safety issue. The two ladies who died for unknown (to me) reasons may have survived if they had undergone additional one on one skills development for the Cozumel diving environment. Of course I cannot prove or disprove that assertion. But it appears factual that the divemaster in each case was not in a position to prevent a fatality. No blame is attributed to the DM in either case. A diver's safety is first and foremost their responsibility.

Reality is that newbie divers need additional experience, training, skills development and oversight to get them to a point where they are better able to react positively to problems and solve them successfully. See my footnote verbiage. The goal should be ZERO non-medical fatalities and the private DM, particularly with a structured skills development during those dives, should help with that goal.

As for Dave perhaps saying something, I doubt it. I was really bragging about doing two excellent dives my first day. I was very pleased.

If there was anything being said, this may be it: "Ron, you are good. You are a weenie when it comes to swim throughs, but other than that, I know that you can handle anything we throw your way."

 

[Mike]

Sure. That could have been the end of his dive buddy's diving. So sure it warrants a complaint for failure to deliver on a promise.

What's PADI going to do in regard to a dive shop taking a diver to a different dive site than they requested, unless doing so broke one of PADI rules. If they took the diver on a 160 ft deep dive I might see it, but what exactly did they do that breaks one of PADI's rules? They are just a crappy run dive operation that caters to clientele with little requirements other than getting wet and seeing some fish.

 

[Qnape]

I do not agree with the notion that Cozumel is a bad dive destination for newly certified divers. A private DM is an excellent idea for perhaps most new divers to the area.

I very much agree with this. Six years ago, my daughter, then 14, convinced me that she wanted to dive. We planned our first trip to Cozumel, after researching many destinations that would also appeal to my wife, who was not interested in diving. We learned that the conditions could be more challenging than at many destination due to the currents, average dive depth and swim-throughs commonly experienced there. We talked to our instructor and divemasters, got their advice and did more research. We completed several practice dives in NJ / PA (four with our excellent OW instructor who took the time on his own to come out for some fun dives with us, and "show us some stuff since he knew we were heading to Cozumel") and took AOW to be better prepared for the deeper dives and night dives we would see in Cozumel. I sought out an op that would provide a private DM (and we found later would have required one if we had not asked about one), and even though that dive op told us we did not need one any longer after two days, kept him for the week to teach us and show us as much as possible. We loved the dives, and learned more than we could have any other way.

The result has been two active and at least competent divers; we've made trips to Utila, Turneffe atoll, Little Cayman (3 times), Tulum/Playa del Carmen area and cenotes (twice), Purto Vallarta and four more trips to Cozumel. We completed Rescue, Enriched Air, and TDI cavern. We're returning to dive again in Cozumel in August.

For us, Cozumel was a perfect first dive destination. It was challenging enough to take seriously and encouraged us to train. Our week with a Private DM was more valuable to us than any course could have been, and was worth far more than its price.