Wings of death?

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Some people just have to be right... even when their theories are full of holes. They just come up with more "convoluted" theories to prove how superior they must be to all of us "un-enlightened" DOW strokes. "Just read your own posts" is some of the condescending smack they throw out and then they are smug about it. Heck, I have even been compared to a pig because I see the falacies of their logic. Thats OK... if they have to belittle others to feel better about themselves and their diving, I can take it. Or I can just choose to leave it.

They call them wings of death, and yet have no real evidence... just an anecdotal piece about some over-weighted diver that they think proves their point. You point out how much like a religion DIR is and they are quick to point out how everyone is always slamming them and how unfair it is. They waste no time in insulting me or the gear I use. Thats OK for them to insult me, but not the other way around. We call ourselves "strokes" in utter defiance of their cult, and they get all bent out of shape. Thats OK... I really have better things to do then trying to learn how to sing the same sad song they sing. I will not stoop to outright condemnation of any gear because George Irvine does. And while there might be some relatively small merit in how they do it at WKPP, I really don't want to be delusional and think that I will ever need to be like Irvine or Jablonski. Most who go that route are merely wannabes. I will never need to go to that extreme. Ya'll have fun, 'cause this stroke has had enough of closed minded mean spirited people who only want things to go one way. I definitely don't want to emulate that! See ya! Ya done annoyed the pig once too often. I might have bungees on my wings, but I think some of you have them on your minds. I won't hold my breath waiting for them to open.
 
Yoop,
I agree with a lot of what you say, but this time I have to disagree. You make assumptions about a death of a diver, simply by the wings he was wearing. You did not know anything that happened on the wreck, just that he had some bungee wings on. Regardless of the wings that were being worn, this death probably would not have been prevented. If this persons problem was that they could not swim to the surface, then it was because they did not dump that 28lbs of lead, not because of their choice of wings. Halcyon wings would not have brought this person to the surface. Everyone who gets into diving should know that you need to be able to swim up all of your equipment without the aid of your wings. No one here knows what happened on that day, so no one here can pass judgement.

Pete,
It is y'all, not ya'll! :wink:

Everyone,
I find this entire discussion getting out of hand. The two arguements that have been made are; the bungees could cause a runaway descent if a puncture is formed, and they cause an entanglement hazard. The first is not an issue. Why? Because you need to be able to swim up all of your gear anyway. This is true whether you wear OMS or Halcyon. The second is the only real issue I can see. I personally would not wear the wings because of this alone. However, that does not mean the person who does wear them will kill themselves. Some of you seem to think that if a person does not dive just like you do, they are playing Russian Roulette. When in fact, those of you with that attitude, are playing Russian Roulette yourselves. In any Tech Diving, your attitude will get you killed just as quickly as your gear.
 
Not only are they restricting the flow, but I am also hopelessly entangled in this thread...James, I completely agree...that dude was overweighted in the first place and we will never know what role the bungie wings played in it because he is no longer with us.

I probably should not have brought that up, but I was looking to further the debate by finding some examples of BWOD deaths...from most of what I have heard, the bungie wings may not have been the *direct* cause of demise but they have been on the backs of more than a couple diving fatalities in the past few years.

As Pete, and some others as astute as he, will point out, this could be an easy statistical blunder due to the number of bungie wings in use vs the number of other non-bungie wings in use, etc. But...why complicate things with bungies? If a wing works without them, why add the additional enganglement hazard?
 
I'm not saying the wings got him killed. For all I know, he got all narced up and passed out. The question becomes why was he so overweighted? What made him think he could be so overweighted? I've seen a lot of people show up at the dock with a wetsuits, double steel tanks, a steel deco bottle, and dual bungied wings and think they OK.

Regardless of what anyone here thinks, this is a worthwhile debate. There are lurkers reading this thread that have no idea that these issues even exist. I think it's important to show both sides of an issue like this one. If it wasn't for discussions like this, people would be getting their information from heavily biased salesman. There is no reason to get personal about it. I, for one, don't dislike or disrespect anyone that I debate with on these threads. This is a place for learning and debate is a great way for learning to occur.

We're right, you guys are wrong. DEAL WITH IT! :D

Mike
 
Originally posted by Lost Yooper
I'm not saying the wings got him killed. For all I know, he got all narced up and passed out. The question becomes why was he so overweighted? What made him think he could be so overweighted? I've seen a lot of people show up at the dock with a wetsuits, double steel tanks, a steel deco bottle, and dual bungied wings and think they OK.

Of course, you could find that example if someone had 75lb Halcyon Explorere wings on too.

Regardless of what anyone here thinks, this is a worthwhile debate. There are lurkers reading this thread that have no idea that these issues even exist. I think it's important to show both sides of an issue like this one.

As do I. I think the debate is very worthwhile. As long as it stays a healthy debate. The one thing I like about this board, as compared to some others, is that you can debate without name calling, and for the most part, people are open minded. Well, they will atleast they will hear the other side of the story. I find some are letting it turn personal.

If it wasn't for discussions like this, people would be getting their information from heavily biased salesman.

True. Very True. However, even the information here can be VERY biased.

There is no reason to get personal about it. I, for one, don't dislike or disrespect anyone that I debate with on these threads. This is a place for learning and debate is a great way for learning to occur.

I agree. I do not want to get personal at all. If anything I say on this board is taken personal by anyone, then I truly do apologize.

We're right, you guys are wrong. DEAL WITH IT! :D

You sound like my ex girlfriend. LOL!!!!
 
I've seen a lot of people show up at the dock with a wetsuits, double steel tanks, a steel deco bottle, and dual bungied wings and think they OK.

So if they were to show up with wings of the same lift capacity that weren't bungied they would be ok?

Or is the issue not the wings, but the fact that they are overweighted for the rig they are diving?

Tom
 
True. Very True. However, even the information here can be VERY biased.

Absolutely, but we have no vested interest in seeing someone buy something (at least I don't). It doesn't matter to me one way or another if someone goes out and wastes a ton of money on needless gimmicks. I'm not a shop owner, representative of any manufacturer, nor do I make my living within the scuba industry. I advocate those things that make sense to ME and bungied and dual wings don't make any sense.



So if they were to show up with wings of the same lift capacity that weren't bungied they would be ok?

Of course not.

Or is the issue not the wings, but the fact that they are overweighted for the rig they are diving?

The issue is that gimmicks like this tend to lead to bad habits such as overweighting.

Mike
 
I went diving this weekend and used my new OMS wings. went to 125ft and guess what I did'nt die. I did'nt get snagged on anything and had some of the best control I've ever had since diving. One of the best dives I've ever done





:sharky: :copper:
 
Originally posted by roguediver
I went diving this weekend and used my new OMS wings. went to 125ft and guess what I did'nt die.
Well there you go! That should settle it once and for all....
If you can do that and not die then nothing more to consider....
No snag, no drag, no body bag!
 
That would save me a fortune in dive gear too...
 
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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