Will Shops & Instructors like this, or hate this?

[boulderjohn]

The problem that this concept is trying to solve, obviously, is that this kind of training is not part of the current recreational training of just about all recreational training agencies. I agree that it is a problem, but I also agree with those who say that the proposed solution will not be well received.

My solution to the problem, which will soon be implemented in our area, will be to offer just such a program through a specific dive shop. It is easy for anyone who has anything like those skills to create just such a program. If the program is marketed properly, and if students are interested in it, then it will be popular. If it is popular, then other shops in the area will say, "Hey, maybe we should have that, too." Then perhaps they will take steps to implement it. If enough shops do that, then the agencies might say, "Hey, maybe we need a formal program like that."

A lot of shops have instructors on their current staffs who have the training to do what you describe. All it takes is for them to think it is a good use of their resources, as I believe it is.

 

[Thalassamania]

I don't see this as selling GUE or UTD or AAUS as much as selling PADI courses like the ones that Peter and John or NAUI courses like Bob or SEI courses like Jim run.

 

[Kingpatzer]

I personally think that marketing it to instructors as way of building their tool box could be a great idea. I'd love to go to a seminar on perfecting basic dive skills with other instructors from multiple agencies where we could build our in water skills, discover new ways of teaching those skills, talk about classroom presentation of various topics, and hang out with a few beers after the pool sessions talking about how we do things.

I'd actually pay a fair amount of money to do that. I wouldn't even care if we did the whole thing in a hotel pool.

But as soon as you start talking about marketing it to LDS's for their customers, I think you're mis-evaluating your market. An LDS isn't going to take their customers to another LDS's class. It just won't happen.

If you want to market to individual divers, Thal's idea is a very good one.

 

[danvolker]

I think the biggest issue is getting the better skills to the divers. This is much bigger than which agency is the prime mover on this.
BHB is a great place for this, due to the large number of divers there every weekend, and the ease with which skill disparities can be demonstrated there--and ease with which basic workshops could be offered.

I am still leaning toward using some kind of tunnel structure, mostly because you would need some particularly difficult course to really drive the points home. I'd like to have some instructors with great skills in bouyancy and trim with vest style bc's, doing this as role models for many divers...and some with bp/wings, as role models for others. While any that know me are aware I believe the bp/wing is far superior, I can't eliminate vest bc's, because there are so many people using them, and it is not moral to withhold skills training to them, just because some of us don't think the vest BC can be as good....the important point, is that vest bc wearers can get much better than most are, and bp/wing wearers can get to be much better than most of them are... No one should be pogoing on the silty bottom, or becoming a human polaris missile on ascents.

If we do nothing, every weekend 40 to 100 more divers will pogo along the bottom of the Blue Heron Bridge Marine Park, silting continuously, and most not even aware of it....These same weekends, there will be hundreds that go on our boats, that have similar issues on our reefs.

They need awareness, and they need a path. Maybe we need 10 instructors from 10 different agencies, doing the demos in the tunnel structure, and then helping as divers try this themselves. As divers realize how much they don't know, and how bad their skills are, more "may" decide to get real training beyond the quickie workshop. Certanly videos of this could help many more divers, if they decide to watch. Anyway, it is a direction to consider.

 

[jar546]

Dan, If you stay in front of the bridge near the moored boats on the south side, closer to shore, can you dive longer hours regardless of the tide? I noticed about 1.5 hours after HT that there was only current close to the channels. I would suspect that some people dive the bridge routinely without taking tide into consideration. OK, suspect or assume?

 

[Thalassamania]

Perhaps you can use the "Diamond Reef" program (if it is still around) I liked that one a lot.

THE TEST CIRCUIT The obstacle course was largely based around the Diamond Reef system, which uses a series of plastic diamond-shaped frames as a reference point for buoyancy-control training and assessment. The assessed part of the challenge consisted of eight underwater tests: 1 DESCEND AND HOVER FOR 1 MINUTE A frame was set up at 4.5m, the object to position one's body in the centre and hover without touching the frame, simulating a deco or safety stop. The safety divers measured the minute. 2 HIGH-LOW-MID-DEPTH TUNNEL Three diamonds were arranged at different depths to form an undulating tunnel, simulating swimming through a cave, wreck or over a reef. 3 SKITTLE BOX Four skittles were placed at the corners of a square. The diver descends into the square, lies on the bottom, then rises - all without displacing skittles by contact or fin-wash. This simulates dropping into a confined space, as when taking a photo. 4 KID'S PUZZLE While holding position in the same frame as the 1min hover, the divers had to complete a suspended puzzle. This task involves inserting a plastic shape from a bag in the matching hole in a box and is suitable for 3 months and up - easy! It introduces task-loading and simulates taking a photo or manipulating equipment such as a delayed SMB midwater. Using a toy overcomes the fact that some divers may be more familiar than others with certain types of equipment. The slightly buoyant toy was suspended by a lightly weighted line just below the centre of the frame, such that it couldn't be used as a handhold. 5 SWIM-THROUGH TUNNEL Three diamonds formed a tunnel of constant depth to simulate swimming through a cave, wreck or along a reef. 6 WEIGHTED GOODY BAG THROUGH TUNNEL A goody bag had to be carried through the constant-depth tunnel to simulate the buoyancy effects of picking something up, such as a camera or artefact. It contained 4kg of weight. 7 REEL THROUGH TUNNEL A line had to be paid out while swimming through the constant-depth tunnel. This simulates line-laying in a wreck or cave, or for a search pattern in open water, and increases task-loading. 8 45-SECOND ASCENT Ascend to the surface from the 6m bottom without using instruments. This tests time-appreciation and simulates loss or failure of a dive computer.

 

[danvolker]

Perhaps you can use the "Diamond Reef" program (if it is still around) I liked that one a lot.

View attachment 118429

THE TEST CIRCUIT The obstacle course was largely based around the Diamond Reef system, which uses a series of plastic diamond-shaped frames as a reference point for buoyancy-control training and assessment. The assessed part of the challenge consisted of eight underwater tests: 1 DESCEND AND HOVER FOR 1 MINUTE A frame was set up at 4.5m, the object to position one's body in the centre and hover without touching the frame, simulating a deco or safety stop. The safety divers measured the minute. 2 HIGH-LOW-MID-DEPTH TUNNEL Three diamonds were arranged at different depths to form an undulating tunnel, simulating swimming through a cave, wreck or over a reef. 3 SKITTLE BOX Four skittles were placed at the corners of a square. The diver descends into the square, lies on the bottom, then rises - all without displacing skittles by contact or fin-wash. This simulates dropping into a confined space, as when taking a photo. 4 KID'S PUZZLE While holding position in the same frame as the 1min hover, the divers had to complete a suspended puzzle. This task involves inserting a plastic shape from a bag in the matching hole in a box and is suitable for 3 months and up - easy! It introduces task-loading and simulates taking a photo or manipulating equipment such as a delayed SMB midwater. Using a toy overcomes the fact that some divers may be more familiar than others with certain types of equipment. The slightly buoyant toy was suspended by a lightly weighted line just below the centre of the frame, such that it couldn't be used as a handhold. 5 SWIM-THROUGH TUNNEL Three diamonds formed a tunnel of constant depth to simulate swimming through a cave, wreck or along a reef. 6 WEIGHTED GOODY BAG THROUGH TUNNEL A goody bag had to be carried through the constant-depth tunnel to simulate the buoyancy effects of picking something up, such as a camera or artefact. It contained 4kg of weight. 7 REEL THROUGH TUNNEL A line had to be paid out while swimming through the constant-depth tunnel. This simulates line-laying in a wreck or cave, or for a search pattern in open water, and increases task-loading. 8 45-SECOND ASCENT Ascend to the surface from the 6m bottom without using instruments. This tests time-appreciation and simulates loss or failure of a dive computer.

Thal, how would you go about making or buying one of these...

I think it is a fantastic idea to be used at the BHB.

2nd question would be whether we would have any issues with the Sherriffs of Marine Patrol, or with the main dive shop insurance companies, if we run people through this type of course.

 

[boulderjohn]

I have done some of these things using Hula Hoops, and I have a suggestion:

5 SWIM-THROUGH TUNNEL
Three diamonds formed a tunnel of constant depth to simulate swimming through a cave, wreck or along a reef.

6 WEIGHTED GOODY BAG THROUGH TUNNEL
A goody bag had to be carried through the constant-depth tunnel to simulate the buoyancy effects of picking something up, such as a camera or artefact. It contained 4kg of weight.​

Try the same thing through a tunnel that is not constant depth. This requires them to make subtle depth changes using their breathing alone. I used to do something similar with merely two hula hoops held to the floor of a pool with different lengths of weight belt. I made sure the divers understood that they had to go through them using only their breathing to change depth.

 

[danvolker]

I have done some of these things using Hula Hoops, and I have a suggestion:

5 SWIM-THROUGH TUNNEL
Three diamonds formed a tunnel of constant depth to simulate swimming through a cave, wreck or along a reef.

6 WEIGHTED GOODY BAG THROUGH TUNNEL
A goody bag had to be carried through the constant-depth tunnel to simulate the buoyancy effects of picking something up, such as a camera or artefact. It contained 4kg of weight.​

Try the same thing through a tunnel that is not constant depth. This requires them to make subtle depth changes using their breathing alone. I used to do something similar with merely two hula hoops held to the floor of a pool with different lengths of weight belt. I made sure the divers understood that they had to go through them using only their breathing to change depth.

I like the changing depth issue a lot...we have some cool wrecks off Palm beach, which include a few with passageways where you go down into a stair way---changing depth in a tunnel.... which will turn at some point....these can be silty, so not bumping into the stairs or bottom is a big plus.

Seeing what all the drills and extra training is going to help with, might help make a lot of divers more interested in this.

 

[danvolker]

I watched a video of the original Diamond reef system....I could not tell how they anchored it for certain , but it appears as though it is connected to the surface...this would move too much for us, so we would need anchor points on poles driven in to the bottom or equivalent...Probably a request we would have to put through Environmental Resorce Management of Palm Beach County...which we can do