Will shooting off a DSMB help protect you from oncoming boats or is this wrong?

[macado]

It could be used but I have to really keep in mind that it has the potential of attracting other boater to me. That is a very good point to remember. I was "ASSUMING" I was completely safe or protected, not the case.

This thread reminds me of an experience I had back in grade school. A police officer had asked the class how many students think that a cross walk protects them. For all of the students that raised our hands (myself included) we were reminded that a cross walk does not "protect" you as a pedestrian. There are no rails for fences that prevent or protect a car from hitting you. It is your responsibility as the pedestrian crossing the road to ensure that the conditions are safe to cross. The cross walk serves to alert drivers there are students crossing the road but if they fail to notice and you are in the cross walk then you will be hit by the car.


A SMB will alert boaters to the presence of a diver in the water but does little to protect the diver. The boat driver still has to notice the marker and avoid the diver. I've been on dive boats with the diver down flag and a captain screaming with a bull horn at boats that even when informed still came dangerously close to the dive boat.

The thing it will do, if you have a boat waiting for you on the surface, is give your boat crew the opportunity to fend off the idiots. We used to have to do that all the time in Lake Washington when we were doing planned decompression dives and using SMBs to mark our position. Seemed like every second or third boat just HAD to change course to go over and get a CLOSE look at the SMB ... and do the deer in the headlights act when the crew on our waiting boat would yell to try to fend them off. They don't seem to understand that their propellor could do some significant damage to someone coming up from beneath the marker. And FWIW - using a dive flag has exactly the same effect on these people.


Bottom line ... you're not using it to fend off other boats. Don't even approach it with that in mind ... it's the rare boat operator who will see one and understand that there's a diver coming up underneath it (or care). You're using it to signal the people on YOUR boat as to your location. That at least gives them a chance to fend off the idiots on your behalf.

I guess I'm confused? Would you rather surface in completely open ocean in a black wetsuit or deploy a 6-8ft brightly colored tube that would at least give a boat a "chance" to spot you so it can swerve out of the way.. To me, an 8ft orange tube is a little more noticeable in the water than a diver in a black wetsuit/drysuit just below the surface.

Like others have said, an dSMB is a good way to alert boats to the "presence" of a diver or "something" in the water but it does not protect them.

I work on a dive charter in New England. We typically use dSMBs to mark our positions to let the dive boat know where we're coming up so they'll know where to pick us up. If I am surfacing in an unknown area or have no idea where I am, I shoot an dSMB to make it easier for the boat to locate me, especially if I'm drifting out of range of the boat which happens to be anchored or tied into a wreck.

It also gives the charter boat captain a chance to fend off any other idiot boaters that may be veering down on my position.

 

[Edward3c]

Two points I've not seen mentioned in this or your other threads, but then I have skip read.

1. You need to inform the boat skipper that you are (or may) deploy a marker during, or at the end, of your dive. Also confirm the colour as there isn't a standard - much to the disgust of own DIR brethren.

2. In the UK there is no requirement for people driving boats to hold a qualification of sit a competence test. So the majority of pleasure boat users have no idea what they are supposed to do when near divers. Or even know what a dive flag looks like - in the UK its the "A" Flag.

 

[DennisS]

There are a lot of clueless weekend boaters that will come over to see what it is with propellers spinning, they may even try to bring it aboard

 

[Nemrod]

There are a lot of clueless weekend boaters that will come over to see what it is with propellers spinning, they may even try to bring it aboard

No, that is usually the Florida FWC.

Here OP, choose the answer that suits you.

A) Yes
B) No
C) Maybe


N

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Two points I've not seen mentioned in this or your other threads, but then I have skip read.

1. You need to inform the boat skipper that you are (or may) deploy a marker during, or at the end, of your dive. Also confirm the colour as there isn't a standard - much to the disgust of own DIR brethren.

2. In the UK there is no requirement for people driving boats to hold a qualification of sit a competence test. So the majority of pleasure boat users have no idea what they are supposed to do when near divers. Or even know what a dive flag looks like - in the UK its the "A" Flag.

View attachment 208346

1 - on some charters you will be required to carry and deploy an SMB. If you don't own one the boat will supply you with one. SMBs are generally either orange or yellow. There used to be some significance to the color difference, and still may be in some parts of the world (one color indicates an emergency, while the other is simply used for ascending). In the rare cases where I've been on a boat that recognizes this difference, it will be covered in the pre-dive briefing.

I'm not sure why you brought up DIR, as I'm not aware of there being any kind of standard or controversy within the DIR community as to the significance of SMB color.

2 - the "Alpha" flag isn't a dive flag ... it's an internationally-recognized signal that the vessel flying it isn't underway, and therefore cannot move. Dive boats use it when they're anchored or moored. A "live" dive boat should not (technically) be flying this flag, as they're capable of moving if they have to. Most do anyway because they are "protecting" the area where their divers are down, and have no intention of moving until those divers are back on board.

But there's another class of boats that routinely use the Alpha flag for a different purpose ... sailboats racing by PHRF rules use it to indicate what class they're racing in.

Most dive boats I have dived from in the USA fly both the Alpha flag and the standard dive flag (red with white diagonal stripe), so as to avoid confusion.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Storker]

the "Alpha" flag isn't a dive flag ...

It is, on this side of the pond:

As a code signal the International maritime signal flags A (letter ALFA/ALPHA) has the meaning of "I have a diver down; keep well clear at slow speed",[5] used to indicate the presence of a diver in the water, and is more commonly employed in Europe and the British Commonwealth, including countries such as United Kingdom, Ireland, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa, and Kenya. It is also used by Russian Navy for the same purpose.

The red flag with the diagonal stripe is an overseas (US) invention, which has come to use on dive centers etc. also here. However, for maritime signaling, the "A" flag is the correct one east of the pond. We even fly it on shore, on shore dives, since it's the recognized "diver down" flag here.

it's an internationally-recognized signal that the vessel flying it isn't underway, and therefore cannot move. Dive boats use it when they're anchored or moored.

...or otherwise restricted in their maneuvering, which AFAIK would be the case even for "live" boats:

A rigid replica of the 'A' flag is required to be displayed by any vessel engaged in diving operations, when restricted in her ability to maneuver, if the size of the vessel makes it impractical to display the shapes and lights required by the International Rules for Prevention of Collisions at Sea (IRPCS) Rule 27.[6][7]

The USCG even states explicitly that the red "diver down" flag isn't an official signal:

^ "Eighth Coast Guard District Special Notice to Mariners" (PDF). United States Coast Guard. 2008. p. 23. Retrieved 2 February 2010. "The distinction the Coast Guard wants to make clear is: The Alpha flag is a navigational signal intended to protect the vessel from collision. The sports diver flag is an unofficial signal that, through custom, has come to be used to protect the diver in the water.

Diver down flag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (emphasis mine)

You might also want to check INTERNATIONAL CODE OF SIGNALS FOR VISUAL, SOUND, AND RADIO COMMUNICATIONS - UNITED STATES EDITION - 1969 Edition (Revised 2003) (zipped PDF):

SINGLE LETTER SIGNALS
May be made by any method of signaling.
See Note 1 for those marked by an asterisk (*)
A I have a diver down; keep well clear at slow speed.
[...]

(emphasis mine)

 

[Bob DBF]

The USCG even states explicitly that the red "diver down" flag isn't an official signal:

That would be not official for the USCG signals, however the red "diver down" is official, legal and required by a number of states and jurisdictions in the US. And don't bet that the USCG will not cite you for ignoring state law, as well as federal on the waterway.



Bob

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

... my apologies for not going into greater detail ... but my point really was that flying the alpha flag isn't the simple solution that was implied. Hopefully your dive boats in England are also flying the appropriate lights and shapes ... laws and definitions do vary from place to place, as this article from Dive Training attempts to (humorously) describe ...

Dive Flag Laws Examined

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Storker]

my point really was that flying the alpha flag isn't the simple solution that was implied.

My point was that it is in Europe. The A flag is known and taught. The red isn't.

As you said, rules vary by location.


--
Sent from my Android phone
Typos are a feature, not a bug

 

[lowviz]

Dive Flag Laws Examined

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Excerpt: New Jersey — New Jersey Administrative Code says, “Any person while diving shall mark his or her position with a buoyed flag…Such flag shall be displayed so that it is visible all around the horizon from a buoy, float, boat or other floating object.”

Not surprisingly, New Jersey also wanted its minimum dive flag size to be bigger than in New York, longer than in Texas, and with greater presence, in general. “Such flag shall be a minimum of 14 inches by 16 inches, shall be rigid to enhance visibility…”

I have all the boxes checked, including strobes.

New Jersey "attitude".

Funny thing is, the local LEO's are some of the nicest people I've ever met. So me and the Christmas tree just shut up and go diving...