Water Boy76
Contributor
In my area, if you inflate an SMB boaters will probably start trolling circles around you.
Will shooting off a DSMB help protect you from oncoming boats or is this wrong?
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I have always said it's an essential piece of safety equipment and I stand by that.
In terms of use - given that I am a warm water, tropical dive instructor I have carried a finger reel and a 1.5m DSMB for most of my dives and I don't find that bulky; the reel with 20m of line was clipped to a D-Ring and the SMB wrapped in the small bungee and clip that was designed to keep it well wrapped up. I appreciate that if you are wearing thick gloves and require a larger reel to operate it then it will be more bulky but there's always a way to figure that out.
I agree with the sentiment about location - we did have a problem in Thailand at one dive site where Jetski enthusiasts would use them (as per NWG's post above) as part of a slalom course but this was almost exclusively during a period of time when we were forced by the local authorities to tow an SMB throughout the whole dive, after a Thai lady was killed by a longtail at this dive site. The local police would fine us 5,000 baht if we weren't carrying one. The problem became so bad that we decided not to tow them and only inflate them at the end of a dive, prior to the safety stop, which is how we always did it.
One of the reasons was also similar to NWGratefulDiver's post - the problem with towing an SMB throughout the whole dive was that the captain of our boat only knew that we were in the water, he didn't know when we would be coming up. On the other hand, the sudden appearance of an SMB 4 or 5 minutes before the end of the dive was a warning that we were surfacing, and he was then prepared to protect us. It really works. Of course, you need an alert captain, who knows the dive plan and - well - you have one of those if you're boat diving, right?
In Egypt, pretty much all the big boats knew to avoid an SMB, even if they weren't dive boats, because the local authorities had undertaken a training regimen for all boat captains in the area. There were some cowboy exceptions (glass bottom boats, ARGH), but by and large it was a good plan. It meant that boats were at least warned of your presence.
Yes, it depends on location and yes, deploying an SMB may have endangered some divers, but I would bet it's saved many more than it has harmed. Pushed out to sea in a big current and no DSMB? Well, you are properly screwed.
For those that are having problems in environments where there are idiot boaters around, is there any mechanism for training or information? Signs at the jetty or leaflets given to boat owners saying: this means divers are under the water?
We all dive in different locations but it's not fair to say that SMB deployment is entirely unsafe and it's not correct to say that shooting up an SMB will always protect you from all boat traffic. In my world, and in my experience, which is of course incomplete, it has, without question, saved lives.
Cheers
C.
In terms of use - given that I am a warm water, tropical dive instructor I have carried a finger reel and a 1.5m DSMB for most of my dives and I don't find that bulky; the reel with 20m of line was clipped to a D-Ring and the SMB wrapped in the small bungee and clip that was designed to keep it well wrapped up. I appreciate that if you are wearing thick gloves and require a larger reel to operate it then it will be more bulky but there's always a way to figure that out.
I agree with the sentiment about location - we did have a problem in Thailand at one dive site where Jetski enthusiasts would use them (as per NWG's post above) as part of a slalom course but this was almost exclusively during a period of time when we were forced by the local authorities to tow an SMB throughout the whole dive, after a Thai lady was killed by a longtail at this dive site. The local police would fine us 5,000 baht if we weren't carrying one. The problem became so bad that we decided not to tow them and only inflate them at the end of a dive, prior to the safety stop, which is how we always did it.
One of the reasons was also similar to NWGratefulDiver's post - the problem with towing an SMB throughout the whole dive was that the captain of our boat only knew that we were in the water, he didn't know when we would be coming up. On the other hand, the sudden appearance of an SMB 4 or 5 minutes before the end of the dive was a warning that we were surfacing, and he was then prepared to protect us. It really works. Of course, you need an alert captain, who knows the dive plan and - well - you have one of those if you're boat diving, right?
In Egypt, pretty much all the big boats knew to avoid an SMB, even if they weren't dive boats, because the local authorities had undertaken a training regimen for all boat captains in the area. There were some cowboy exceptions (glass bottom boats, ARGH), but by and large it was a good plan. It meant that boats were at least warned of your presence.
Yes, it depends on location and yes, deploying an SMB may have endangered some divers, but I would bet it's saved many more than it has harmed. Pushed out to sea in a big current and no DSMB? Well, you are properly screwed.
For those that are having problems in environments where there are idiot boaters around, is there any mechanism for training or information? Signs at the jetty or leaflets given to boat owners saying: this means divers are under the water?
We all dive in different locations but it's not fair to say that SMB deployment is entirely unsafe and it's not correct to say that shooting up an SMB will always protect you from all boat traffic. In my world, and in my experience, which is of course incomplete, it has, without question, saved lives.
Cheers
C.
There is a Dive Flag Awareness sub-forum here where people have posted plenty of examples of lack of knowledge of dive flags. Maybe this should be addressed by scuba organizations, clubs, etc?
BSAC has some material that can be printed and posted in marinas and such that shows the meaning of the flags and includes DSMB A Flag Recognition Publicity - British Sub-Aqua Club
There is also a project to start using a flag with a clearer meaning. It does not replace the proper flag, but can help Dive Flag - Diver Safety Diver Down | diveflag.co.uk
BSAC has some material that can be printed and posted in marinas and such that shows the meaning of the flags and includes DSMB A Flag Recognition Publicity - British Sub-Aqua Club
There is also a project to start using a flag with a clearer meaning. It does not replace the proper flag, but can help Dive Flag - Diver Safety Diver Down | diveflag.co.uk
I don't think Dan was meaning to say it was of no value. I think what he was trying to say was it was not guaranteed to make the ascent safer. I think he was saying that you must always take into consideration that boaters don't always know or care so you have to assume that they may aim for the marker rather than avoid it. Is it safer to deploy one? Yes. Is it guaranteed to make you safe, absolutely not.
At least that is what I got out of Dan's post.
At least that is what I got out of Dan's post.
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Forget training, can't possibly get them all while they are sober.
You hit on it with "information". I want something that says more than "just another piece of flotsam".
I pull a dive flag (and only because NJ says I have to) with two cheapo strobes Velcro'ed to it. Something actively (and asynchronously) blinking in the night commands a bit more attention than a passive float. By rights, I should be pulling a code alpha flag, but that would be a complete waste of time and effort trying to speak to boaters in their own language. The blinking scuba flag protects me from nothing. I protect me.
However, hit me under that mess and the slip and fall lawyers will be lining up all the way to Canada to take my side...
eelnoraa
Contributor
It does help, but it definitely does NOT protect your from anything. Once you are in water, the only thing that can protect you is yourself. The minutes you ASSUME your own safety is other's responsibility, in this case, a boat driver's ability to see and understand the meaning of SMB, your life is in danger. Don't count on it.
freewillie
Contributor
This thread reminds me of an experience I had back in grade school. A police officer had asked the class how many students think that a cross walk protects them. For all of the students that raised our hands (myself included) we were reminded that a cross walk does not "protect" you as a pedestrian. There are no rails for fences that prevent or protect a car from hitting you. It is your responsibility as the pedestrian crossing the road to ensure that the conditions are safe to cross. The cross walk serves to alert drivers there are students crossing the road but if they fail to notice and you are in the cross walk then you will be hit by the car.
A SMB will alert boaters to the presence of a diver in the water but does little to protect the diver. The boat driver still has to notice the marker and avoid the diver. I've been on dive boats with the diver down flag and a captain screaming with a bull horn at boats that even when informed still came dangerously close to the dive boat.
A SMB will alert boaters to the presence of a diver in the water but does little to protect the diver. The boat driver still has to notice the marker and avoid the diver. I've been on dive boats with the diver down flag and a captain screaming with a bull horn at boats that even when informed still came dangerously close to the dive boat.
I recently did a technical dive that included a group of people in different teams diving slightly different profiles. We were all doing a drifting ascent following a line up to a float that was being closely watched by the dive boat. I watched another diver unfurl and send up a huge DSMB anyway. I watched as he first partially filled it, allowing it to stand up straight before he finished deploying it. He had written a short sentence in three lines with black magic marker across the bottom, telling boaters to stay away because there were divers below. I would guess that if the DSMB were fully on the surface, a boat would have to get to within 15-20 feet to read it. Of course, it was not fully on the surface. During my shallowest stop, I could clearly see that the DSMB was about half full. The full part was lying almost horizontally on the surface, and the part with his carefully written missive to passing boats was completely under water.
That is my take-away from this thread. If you are in South Florida or San Diego or somewhere else with lots of ignorant pleasure boaters, then you may want to employ a different strategy, as it will probably do more harm than good. If you are in Cozumel, then by all means deploy that SMB, as it will probably do more good than harm.
ontdiver
Contributor
We drift dive from a charter boat most of the time on the St. Lawrence, and rely heavily on SMBs to spot buddy pairs and solo divers who can be spread out over quite a distance. While pleasure craft & jet skis are not usually a problem we do have to contend with cargo ships and the simple reality that they are unlikely to be able to adjust course based on an SMB siting. (Hug the bottom and wait till the sound of the screws has passed!.) In any event, I'll agree without hesitation that an SMB is an essential piece of gear. And while I think protection is situational, I'd rather pack an SMB than wish I had one to deploy when things do not go as planned.
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