Will Air Integration in dive computers replace the SPG?

[Bennno]

Stuart, maybe you should offer classes experienced instructors, cave and tec divers. You seem to think you are smarter than all these people that have more than 2 years of dive experience.

Im out, it's pointless to argue with people that have hardly done any diving yet think they're experts on dive gear.

 

[Dhboner]

Stuart typically asks a question then spends the next 300 posts arguing why ALL the answers he got are wrong.

Stuart, maybe you should offer classes experienced instructors, cave and tec divers. You seem to think you are smarter than all these people that have more than 2 years of dive experience.

Im out, it's pointless to argue with people that have hardly done any diving yet think they're experts on dive gear.

 

[stuartv]

Im out, it's pointless to argue with people that have hardly done any diving yet think they're experts on dive gear.

It is indeed pointless to debate something when you offer no actual data to support your position, you ignore examples given and then ask for examples, and in lieu of data and analysis of examples given you just offer insults.

 

[CuzzA]

What would be most "convenient" to me would be to not have to monitor my air at all, and to have as little information presented to me as possible while still enabling me to dive safely. Can they please invent something that does that? I have no idea what it would be like--it's sort of a fanciful or futuristic idea--but that would really be my ultimate goal, whatever it may entail. Diving safely while free from as much "information" as possible.

I have zero experience with rebreathers, but I've read a little about them. Aside from monitoring deco I believe if you put full blind faith in a CCR set to automatic control you would have something similar to what you're looking for. At least you significantly reduce the OOA possibility, unless of course the unit fails. Unfortunately 100% safe is simply not possible. We can't breath under water.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I have zero experience with rebreathers, but I've read a little about them. Aside from monitoring deco I believe if you put full blind faith in a CCR set to automatic control you would have something similar to what you're looking for. At least you significantly reduce the OOA possibility, unless of course the unit fails. Unfortunately 100% safe is simply not possible. We can't breath under water.

As you're probably aware, some people have predicted that rebreathers will become reliable enough and affordable enough to be considered ordinary OW gear in a decade or two. And probably increasingly automated, too--full autopilot, as it were. It's possible that a revolution is afoot, and open circuit diving as we know it today will be considered "vintage diving."

So maybe something radical like that will happen before WAI completely replaces the SPG?

 

[stuartv]

As you're probably aware, some people have predicted that rebreathers will become reliable enough and affordable enough to be considered ordinary OW gear in a decade or two. And probably increasingly automated, too--full autopilot, as it were. It's possible that a revolution is afoot, and open circuit diving as we know it today will be considered "vintage diving."

So maybe something radical like that will happen before WAI completely replaces the SPG?

Or maybe wireless will also replace the cable connecting the computer to the CCR. Wireless AI plus wireless O2 sensors? Or wired everything to a unit somewhere on/inside the CCR and a wrist unit that simply gives the diver the display and controls he needs in order to interface to the CCR unit?

Probably more likely the unit on the CCR is a fully functional computer, so if the wireless link or the wrist unit fails, the diver has some way to access and deploy the wired unit on the CCR.

 

[agilis]

Simple: if you're watching the rate of change on a slim SPG and your tanks are huge, the needle hardly moves at all and you can't see s*it.

Of course it moves. It depends on depth and air consumption reflecting personal level of activity, but saying it does not move is like saying the minute hand on a clock does not move. With "huge" tanks it will move slowly, but if you are down around 30 meters and swimming against a current it will move, especially if you monitor it frequently. It should move at the rate your plan and/or experience leads you to expect.

I hope you did not misinterpret 'movement' as something like a watch second hand. Movement is slow, even with the 60 and 80 cf tanks I generally use. Its movement over time, confirmation of my expectations.

 

[Bennno]

It is indeed pointless to debate something when you offer no actual data to support your position, you ignore examples given and then ask for examples, and in lieu of data and analysis of examples given you just offer insults.

I tried to explain it you you. 'Mental arithmetic' on rec dives is baloney. How have I insulted you? Because I've said you have no experience? Sorry for pointing out the obvious.

When I'm new to something, like rebreather diving, I read stuff and I LISTEN to the experienced people, I don't try to arue with them. It would never cross my mind to tell somebody more experienced than me, that he is wrong because I read something or THINK I know something better. And you know why I do this? Because I realise that it's better to listen to people with experience than make up my own theories.

So lets say I have 10 hours of rebreather experience and someone with a 1000 hours tells me something I disagree with or don't understand, in that case I would just keep asking questions, I'm not gonna lecture people that have more real-life experience than me. I do this because I wanna learn from people that already done stuff I wanna do in the future.
I also read a LOT on a cave diver board, but I will hardly ever chime in... and there is a reason for that.

 

[Bennno]

Stuart typically asks a question then spends the next 300 posts arguing why ALL the answers he got are wrong.

I'm starting to see that now.

Stuart, now you're wanna talk CCRs? Really?

 

[packrat12]

Where I take offense is when someone states that Wireless AI is more reliable than a Brass and Glass SPG. Especially someone without long term experience using the equipment.

With the SPG, you have a hose failure as the most common point of failure. Routine maintenance generally will take care of this. You also have the airspool o-ring failure, which really is a nuisance but not a real problem. I had my O2 side of my CCR airspool o-ring fail last weekend. Did all 4 dives with it failed. When I got home, I did the maintenance. I have not seen one cause a serious failure but rather just a bubble trail with no appreciable gas loss. I have 19CF tanks BTW.

With the wireless AI, you have 2 batteries and a wireless transmitter in between and the software used to interpret it. You can have a failure of either point, either battery or the sync of the transmitter. There are numerous reports and issues of transmitter sync failure on SB and on manufacturer web sites. Every time you open the compartment you subject the units to flooding. You can damage the hard mounted transmitter during a dive. You can have a bad battery that does not last long. You can leave your tank pressurized overnight and drain the battery, etc. You must maintain, just like the airspool, the battery compartment o-rings.

Stuartv – I have my original SPG from 1984 still serviceable. When your wireless AI is 32 years old please let us know about the reliability. My wife’s original SPG is from 1992 and is still serviceable. Both were in active use until late 2013. So that is 2 units at 32 and 24 years old. The only maintenance is 1 or 2 hoses and a couple of airspools. No batteries, no sync issues etc. Keep in mind that there are many million bourbon tube gauges in use around the world. Not just diving. Our gauges are not special. There are probably a couple hundred thousand, at best, wireless AI in use. Of those, many are probably unique even to the manufacturer, at least at the software level if not at the hardware level. On one of your experienced threads, you commented on the fact that a computer could have software logic errors causing erroneous depth or deco information. This also applies to your wireless AI equipment which you seen to have no similar thoughts on. Oh and on CCR, I can very much ASSURE you I would never buy a wireless 'connected system'. I would not want to bailout at every single hiccup. Have you even seen a CCR?

As for my stance on AI, I like AI but I do not care for wireless AI. I have 3 AI computers at home. I love my family on AI as I can better judge their gas supply information. I do not believe it ‘makes’ a diver less knowledgeable. I believe depending on the AI information and not interpreting it can make a diver less skilled. AI is a tool available and for recreational divers, it is a very good tool.

For technical diving, AI or wireless AI will not kill a properly aware diver. It may cause dives to be turned but will not kill them. A tech diver would be expected to not be dependent on information like air time remaining etc but just using the pressure information. However, if I was technical diving with someone using wireless AI who had multiple sync issues over several trips and as a result had to turn the dive, I can assure you I would not continue to dive with them. If they had no issues, I would dive with them.