Why waste money on training!?

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I have this book and it is not the one I am thinking of. The one I am thinking of was a small paperback published by Aqualung. I think it had maybe 60 pages or so.
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The one from US Divers was possibly "Anyone for diving" various colors of bindings and various authors, Bev Morgan who was the original author and wrote it on contract, then Bill Barada and Tommy Thompson who were US Diver's PRs

The Science of Skin and SCUBA diving was originally published in late 1950s, After two years it's name was changed to The NEW Science of Skin and SCUBA diving and was revised many times until publication ceased

There are many US diving training manuals beginning with the February 1948 one.
(Ask your shop owner or fuzzy faced instructor about this one)

SDM
 
Some people just don't want to understand the economics of the dive industry. They don't stop and think, "Do the dive shop and training agencies make more money selling more or less training". Of course they make more money selling more training and will promote a never ending string of classes to take...

The only way to increase the level of safety in some diving environments, is through increased fitness/physical ability and personal confidence (to lower the incidence of panic). All too often, training courses focus on the proper use of a particular piece of equipment or established procedure. They often neglect these other areas (especially with the get it quick/cheap courses).

To me there are two main aspects of why we want to learn to dive. The first is to familiarize ourselves with equipment and learn how to properly use it. The purpose is primarily for personal enjoyment. Once 'trained,' we can participate in a given activity with a reasonable degree of safety. This is where most training programs leave off.

The second reason is to learn what to do when things go bump in the night. In a worst case scenario, can you offer assistance underwater to an unconscious Buddy? Can you get yourself up from 100 FSW without the aid of your B.C.? How about your free ascent ability (ESA/CESA)? How comfortable are you being caught in a rip current and finding yourself a mile or more away from your exit point? Is the training you take preparing you to deal with these and other emergencies, or do they just prepare you for success when everything goes right?
 
One thing I have noticed for a long time now is that some people initially take up diving because they are amazed by the natural world but then get derailed and become mired in the human world. Diving becomes about the gear, the certifications, the associations, etc... a very industry centered activity instead of a natural one. So often people don't seem to know what they should do with their diving and fall prey to the easy default of taking the "next step" in dive education. It's a road laid out in front of them which offers the feeling that they are progressing at something.

It's like they always have to be going somewhere and need someone to tell them where that is. Hell, I'm going diving!

I took up diving so I could observe fish (and other marine organisms) in their natural environment. Diving is a means, not an end in itself; though I have grown to enjoy it as a hobby in its own right. After some initial training, and with very simple gear, I have been able to do my thing for years now without any undue hardship. My progress is measured by the knowledge base I have acquired regarding fish, not agency certifications. If I need expanded education it would be in understanding what I observe or perhaps improving my ability to capture it on video.

We have divers, and we have a dive industry; what we seem to lack in strength is a dive culture separate from that industry, like the club format - which is where I put my efforts locally. Something that promotes human interaction and focus on engaging in aquatic activities without the sales pitch.

Here's a video from last week. Both of us have hundreds of dives in this general locale yet are as excited as ever to get in the water without further education. Max D 38', T 89minutes:

[video=youtube;IJEQFg_vVqk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJEQFg_vVqk[/video]
 
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Here in the UK there is a 'macho' thing where a fair number of dives are done with twins because its the 'in-thing' not because the dive requires them.

Like rivers, I only dived a twinset because for many dives I needed it and I didn't want to get my single from back home. Just not worth it.
Besides, it saved me from having to change configurations and regs (I'd have to buy even more stuff to have complete single and twinset rigs) and I could do a day's diving without needing to get a fill in between dives, like others.
And since many actually use a 15l plus pony, a proper twinset would be a much better setup.

As for the topic... for a long time there were no certifications. People learned with others or by themselves. It was a smaller group, people knew each other better, it took more effort and maybe that filtered the kind of people going into diving. Still, many died. And the lessons from those deaths can now be learned in dive courses.
Does it make sense to go over the same mistakes again? No. Of course there's information available in books or the internet, but is that really enough? Where is the practice?
I think some certifications are really worth it. I see that if someone would have a good mentor, they could learn the same things, but not have anything to show as proof of their knowledge and proficiency. Yes, that can suck... But really how do you expect others to just trust your word? Tough when dealing with strangers, impossible when dealing with some legislation, extremely difficult when living in a society so prone to litigation.
But I do agree with what's been said, organizations and schools make money selling courses, the more courses there are to sell, the more money they get. And it pisses me off when courses created by some organization become a standard. Comes to mind the dry suit course. I have two dry suits and been diving dry for many years. Don't have a specialty course. A shop wouldn't rent me a suit once.
 
...Does it make sense to go over the same mistakes again?
But would we have anything without that mindset? It seems we want all the benefits that self reliance brought while at the same time, wanting to get rid of that very trait. As a result we may be the first generation that actually goes backwards in innovation. Just look at our standing on the world stage.. Consumers / manufacturers? Leaders / followers?

extremely difficult when living in a society so prone to litigation.
It's not the people engaged in self reliance that are creating this situation. It's the people who think someone else knows better than them and should have kept them safe. A litigious society is the unintended consequence of consumerism: "I bought it - you should have made it safe" rather than "I made it, it's my responsibility".
 
As for the topic... for a long time there were no certifications. People learned with others or by themselves. It was a smaller group, people knew each other better, it took more effort and maybe that filtered the kind of people going into diving. Still, many died. And the lessons from those deaths can now be learned in dive courses.

I can't say what went on in the 50's as I was too young. There were Clubs however and Councils/Associations made-up of Clubs which established training standards. Back then the training you received was dependent upon the reputation of the instructor who signed a card to say that you were trained. Instructors had no numbers or certification agencies, but they were known within several hundred miles where you were certified.

I was certified in 1965. I had to wait 18 months until I was old enough to become certified with NAUI. I was a member of the Underwater Club of Canada when I started; which had 350 Divers, 12 Instructors (3 of which were certified). I didn't know anyone who was involved in a diving accident (or hear of one) until completing my Navy diver training 6 years later. I don't know what statistics you've heard, but diver accidents were few and far between back then. They did happen however.

Does it make sense to go over the same mistakes again? No. Of course there's information available in books or the internet, but is that really enough? Where is the practice?

No but in my opinion diver training today is often insufficient for the diving conditions present. Minimal in-water skill/ physical fitness requirement, inability to properly plan a dive, often no u/w rescue ability and little or no swimming/in-water ability. Something that was totally unheard of 40 years ago... I agree with you; with today's training, 'Where is the practice?'

I think some certifications are really worth it. I see that if someone would have a good mentor, they could learn the same things, but not have anything to show as proof of their knowledge and proficiency. Yes, that can suck... But really how do you expect others to just trust your word? Tough when dealing with strangers, impossible when dealing with some legislation, extremely difficult when living in a society so prone to litigation.

As my signature states "Competence is more important than a C-Card. A C-Card is no guarantee of competence." That goes for an Instructor card as well. So how do you tell competence? I suspect that like everyone, there is an element of trust. One mitigating factor is money. Personally I would trust a certified Instructor volunteering his services to a Club over a Shop Instructor who is paid (and controlled to some degree by the employer). I've been both (past owner of an LDS) and in most circumstances the volunteer instructor has much more leeway as to how comprehensive the course becomes. I understand however, that the majority just want the card, or want the illusion that they know what they're doing as quickly and easily as possible.

But I do agree with what's been said, organizations and schools make money selling courses, the more courses there are to sell, the more money they get. And it pisses me off when courses created by some organization become a standard. Comes to mind the dry suit course. I have two dry suits and been diving dry for many years. Don't have a specialty course. A shop wouldn't rent me a suit once.

I agree. If you put the keys in the hands of for-profits it is not surprising that they will turn it into a money machine. If they could get away with it, they would make a card to 30FSW and add a specialty for every 10 FSW thereafter. If everyone bought into it, everyone would be showing their 70 FSW and 80 FSW cards with pride (actually thinking that they actually learned something in their last four courses). :shakehead:

So much of the training today is a scam. In your initial program you are either prepared to plan a dive, project your gas management and decompression plan, assess the dive site, do the dive and look after your Buddy with reasonable certainty (regardless if he needs assistance above or below the water) or you can't. These are required for me to certify a diver. I know that's not considered progressive today, but my training philosophy isn't shared by every diver certification agency. I believe something has been lost.

I understand the economics of having someone come back 3 or 4 times to get this amount of training, but am fearful of those divers that don't do it. I'm sure each of us has seen them at various dive sites. It's a crime in my view that this has been allowed. Too many divers I've spoken to have quit diving because they didn't feel confident. In other words, they were fearful of diving because they didn't feel safe. What a great thing from a business point-of-view, as it's much easier to get them back for training. The sad thing is that before they are certified, they should be able to dive without supervision, just unbelievable...
 
No but in my opinion diver training today is often insufficient for the diving conditions present. Minimal in-water skill/ physical fitness requirement, inability to properly plan a dive, often no u/w rescue ability and little or no knowledge in how to swim. Something that was totally unheard of 40 years ago... I agree with you. With today's training, 'Where is the practice?'

I think so too. And it's getting worse. For instance, CMAS considered their P1 diver to be supervised. Even though the limits were 20m and the course is similar to PADI OW, although it can be more extensive, depending on the country. Because of the European legislation where they tried to establish a uniform grading system, PADI OW, which had always been seen as similar to CMAS P1 was suddenly different and P1 was being compared to PADI Scuba Diver (something that shouldn't be a certification). That forced CMAS to change its policy not to be in disadvantage and it shouldn't have happened this way. Why level by the lowest requirements? This often pushes divers with little experience to dive on their own and I think it may be linked to the reason why some quit diving.

I had a very extensive P1 course because at the time, where I got certified (Portugal), diving was under Navy supervision and regulation and there were only two levels, diver and instructor. And the limits for diver were 40m (or 60, if some nonsense requirements were met that did not involve any further training). So because of the national certification and Navy impositions, the diving course was more complete.

As my signature states "Competence is more important than a C-Card. A C-Card is no guarantee of competence." That goes for an Instructor card as well. So how do you tell competence? I suspect that like everyone, there is an element of trust. One mitigating factor is money. Personally I would trust a certified Instructor volunteering his services to a Club over a Shop Instructor who is paid (and controlled to some degree by the employer). I've been both (past owner of an LDS) and in most circumstances the volunteer instructor has much more leeway; as to how comprehensive the course becomes. I understand however that the majority just want the card, or want the illusion that they know what they're doing as quickly and easily as possible.

It can definitely be tricky to choose an instructor. And nowadays can be tricky to trust a diver certification as well. And why is that? Is it not the agencies' fault?
I like the club system and have been involved with clubs where the training is done by volunteers. It can certainly have its advantages.

I agree. If you put the keys in the hands of for-profits it is not surprising that they will turn it into a money machine. If they could get away with it, they would make a card to 30FSW and add a specialty for every 10 FSW thereafter. If everyone bought into it, everyone would be showing their 70 FSW and 80 FSW cards with pride (actually thinking that they actually learned something in their last four courses). :shakehead:

DSAT Tec40, Tec45, Tec50? :rolleyes:

So much of the training today is a scam. In your initial program you are either prepared to plan a dive, project your gas management and decompression plan, assess the dive site, do the dive and look after your Buddy with reasonable certainty (regardless if he needs assistance above or below the water) or you can't. These are required for me to certify a diver. I know that's not considered progressive today, but my training philosophy isn't shared by every diver certification agency. I believe something has been lost.

People want things fast and effortlessly. And agencies want people and put out the message that it's easy, quick and everyone can do it over a weekend if needed be.
Less training also makes courses cheaper. Everybody is happy, right? Until they just quit diving, or accidents happen, or hopefully they find another instructor further on who corrects all flaws in the original training.
 
We almost need another thread, How many of you who were recently certified (in the last 10 or so years) felt you were adequately trained to dive on your own (with a buddy certified in the same time period) after your OW cert? I was one of those who was certified over seas on vacation, albeit with a decent instructor, and took OW and AOW with as little as 10 or 11 dives. Looking back now, I was lucky enough that I found some experienced divers to sort of guide my way into the diving world and refine my skills. Of course I am also one of those horrible self learners that spends countless hours researching every facet about diving and then putting the theory into practice on my sometimes solo (gasp!) dives. I'm sure that will stir some strong opinions.
 
We almost need another thread, How many of you who were recently certified (in the last 10 or so years) felt you were adequately trained to dive on your own (with a buddy certified in the same time period) after your OW cert? I was one of those who was certified over seas on vacation, albeit with a decent instructor, and took OW and AOW with as little as 10 or 11 dives. Looking back now, I was lucky enough that I found some experienced divers to sort of guide my way into the diving world and refine my skills. Of course I am also one of those horrible self learners that spends countless hours researching every facet about diving and then putting the theory into practice on my sometimes solo (gasp!) dives. I'm sure that will stir some strong opinions.

To answer your question, I was certified 8 1/2 years ago, and did the majority of my first 75-100 dives or so with a fellow newbie. We were conservative in our dive planning. I believed at the time I was adequately trained to dive on my own from the get go (actually started solo diving at dive 75), as I had a fine instructor. Still feel that way about the instructor and have DMd OW courses for her. But, after taking Rescue (especially) and later DM, I don't think I was (no slight at all on the instructor of course). I don't think anyone who has no real rescue skills should be diving with someone else who doesn't either. Simple logic says both of you are in trouble if things go sideways. Some will disagree.
 
It all depends on the person. There are people that have a natural feeling for diving. For them you don't need to teach bouyancy. You just need to give them tips and that is enough. Other people need to learn it step by step, slow, quiet, etc.
Some courses I did where useless. That was the aow course. I just did it because people complaigned that I already did nightdives to a 30m depth as just ow certified. When I did the aow course, I didn't learn anything new. Same with nitrox, 1.5 hour took the whole theoretical course. Same with the normoxic trimix course.
As you teach, then you see a lot of different divers. Some are really talented and then it is nice if you can learn them a little thing. You give them tips and they will work with it. Other divers need a lot of attention. For example, the valvedrill with a twinset. I did it when I saw it without problems. but there are divers that have really difficulties with this skill. It can be the equipment not fitted well, but sometimes it is buoyancy etc. Then you give them advise, change this and do this and they practise and after some dives, the can do the same skill. That is where you do it for. An instructor needs to see what needs to be changed to do it well.
 

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