Why the SPG is clipped to the hip ring.

[cool_hardware52]

I agree. A little practice goes a long way. Before you know it, the action becomes automated and effortless.

To help, I wrote a little How to Clip the SPG to the Hip D-Ring article.

Don,

Your articles and photos are a great resource. Good instructors will show you what needs to done. Better will try to show you how. Great instructors break skills into bite sized chunks and include the important little details.

Thanks,

Tobin

 

[boomx5]

Or you could just practice clipping your SPG even with floaty bottles. It really just is a training/practice issue.

I actually have an 80 that I use specifically for that. I'll use 1 that's full and 1 thats empty with 1 or 2 on a leash. It's great for working on bouyancy control when clipping and unclipping stages.

 

[rjack321]

I actually have an 80 that I use specifically for that. I'll use 1 that's full and 1 thats empty with 1 or 2 on a leash. It's great for working on bouyancy control when clipping and unclipping stages.

And keeping the leash squared away!

because it shouldn't create more work or potential for a problem if you have the skill down.
if you're at the point where you're staging safety bottles and unclipping your backgas SPG is an issue, I think there are bigger issues. the answer is more practice, not clipping it to your chest, IMO.

While I can see DA's point...

Diving a low or esp. silty cave,
with stages on you but,
are still breathing significant backgas.

I can see the logic in doing a temporary clip of the SPG to the chest in lieu of hip clipping it for a moment. Although you aren't making anymore gas, and if its that close on gas you're better off thumbing it now if there's any real doubt in your mind about how much you actually have. All in all its a fairly unique circumstance as DA points out...

Thats not 100% true. Just because I have reached thirds on a stage does not mean I am going to drop it right now. I am not be in a good location to drop it, and the reserve in the stage does me more good if I take it farther into the cave before I drop it.

Kinda like diving stages to 1/3rds...

 

[PfcAJ]

Thats not 100% true. Just because I have reached thirds on a stage does not mean I am going to drop it right now. I am not be in a good location to drop it, and the reserve in the stage does me more good if I take it farther into the cave before I drop it.

Then there are times when you are just pre-positioning a stage for a subsequent dive or as an emergency gas source. In those situations you may well be sherpa-ing stages and not breathing off them all the way to your turn pressure.

Again the point is that it will most likely not be your default method of clipping the SPG but there are situations where it makes a great deal of sense.



This statement is either missing the point or is taking iti way out of context. In a low, tight, silty cave, why create more work and more potential for a problem when there is no need to do so?

If you're stage diving and dropping when you hit "thirds" in a stage, we've got to discuss that in a whole 'nuther thread.

If you're at the point where you're doing a legit setup dive, you should know when to drop the stage, and therefore know what your backgas pressure will be when you hit that point. If not, back off a bit and go do some simpler dives in the system. Even with a bunch of bottles, its really not an issue to check your backgas pressure if you have the proper skills.

Checking the spg in a low, silty cave isn't a big deal at all. Siltout from checking your gas? Really? Breaking trim? Come on man. Once again, if this is even a small issue for you, its time to go back to larger passages. Checking your gas in passages like that does require a little more technique, but its not difficult at all.

I'm sorry if I'm sounding rude, but all these arguments really don't hold up under any type of scrutiny, and they all boil down to a lack of skills for the given environment.

 

[M_Bipartitus]

...but all these arguments really don't hold up under any type of scrutiny, and they all boil down to a lack of skills for the given environment.

Problem is the arguments for using the hip D-ring wouldn't hold up to the same level of scrutiny, if that wasn't the common protocol.

For example, keeping the chest uncluttered is a listed reason. If you were defending using the shoulder D-ring, you could just as easily say that if the size of the SPG in your chest area it restricting your ability to work then moving it to the hip would amount to an equipment solution for a skills problem.

When it comes down to it a location has to be chosen and for DIR it should be the same for the whole team and the same for most dives. The hip D-ring has no significant disadvantages and the other positions have no significantly compelling advantages, so you choose the same thing every other DIR diver does.

 

[LiteHedded]

Problem is the arguments for using the hip D-ring wouldn't hold up to the same level of scrutiny, if that wasn't the common protocol.

For example, keeping the chest uncluttered is a listed reason. If you were defending using the shoulder D-ring, you could just as easily say that if the size of the SPG in your chest area it restricting your ability to work then moving it to the hip would amount to an equipment solution for a skills problem.

When it comes down to it a location has to be chosen and for DIR it should be the same for the whole team and the same for most dives. The hip D-ring has no significant disadvantages and the other positions have no significantly compelling advantages, so you choose the same thing every other DIR diver does.

I don't think it's analogous.
you'll have to work around that spg many times on a given dive. dropping stages, picking them up, manipulating stage SPG's and valves etc.
as opposed to the once in a lifetime scenario presented here. the small silty cave where you have stages on you and also have to constantly monitor your backgas pressure for some reason.

like I said, on a reasonable dive you won't be looking at that spg anyway. and if you do and you can't do it without breaking trim in small passage, that's a 'you' problem.

isn't this a system built from the ground up? beginning with the end in mind? changing it all around when you get to a higher level of diving seems contrary to the whole philosophy to me.

 

[PfcAJ]

Problem is the arguments for using the hip D-ring wouldn't hold up to the same level of scrutiny, if that wasn't the common protocol.

For example, keeping the chest uncluttered is a listed reason. If you were defending using the shoulder D-ring, you could just as easily say that if the size of the SPG in your chest area it restricting your ability to work then moving it to the hip would amount to an equipment solution for a skills problem.

When it comes down to it a location has to be chosen and for DIR it should be the same for the whole team and the same for most dives. The hip D-ring has no significant disadvantages and the other positions have no significantly compelling advantages, so you choose the same thing every other DIR diver does.

I can't really tell if you're agreeing with having it on the hip or not. However, if we do scrutinize clipping it to the hip, you will quickly see why it is the best place to clip it.

Keeping it on the hip isn't really a solution, its a matter of practicality. Its streamlined, out of the way, better in small caves (less entanglement hazard) easy to check, doesn't interfere with stages or deco bottles, etc etc. Chest clipping it has many negatives that hip clipping it just doesn't have.

 

[M_Bipartitus]

I'm not arguing where it should be, only that many of the reasons given are not very compelling.

Its streamlined

Do you have hydrodynamic testing to prove this?

less entanglement hazard

Unless you are squeezed against the line, I find this hard to believe. If you're this close in, your more likely to get tangles on stage valves.

easy to check

True that it should be easy to check, but not as easy as on the shoulder

doesn't interfere with stages or deco bottles

Those bottles are clipped to the hip D-ring too. If the proper procedures result in it not interfering at one D-ring, proper procedures (possibly different), should prevent it from interfering at the other.

As I said before

When it comes down to it a location has to be chosen and for DIR it should be the same for the whole team and the same for most dives. The hip D-ring has no significant disadvantages and the other positions have no significantly compelling advantages, so you choose the same thing every other DIR diver does.

This alone is a sufficient reason, but most of the others aren't very compelling.

 

[LiteHedded]

I'm not arguing where it should be, only that many of the reasons given are not very compelling.



Do you have hydrodynamic testing to prove this?



Unless you are squeezed against the line, I find this hard to believe.


True that it should be easy to check, but not as easy as on the shoulder



Those bottles are clipped to the hip D-ring too. If the proper procedures result in it not interfering at one D-ring, proper procedures (possibly different), should prevent it from interfering at the other.

As I said before



This alone is a sufficient reason, but most of the others aren't very compelling.

at the hip it's just a bolt snap and a length of rope. you can easily push the bottles out of the way. it's way more cluttered at the chest D ring.

 

[LiteHedded]

Unless you are squeezed against the line, I find this hard to believe. If you're this close in, your more likely to get tangles on stage valves.

we often ARE squeezed against the line. are we now switching the placement of the SPG whenever we get close to the line or every time we drop and pick up a stage?
come on man...