Why the SPG is clipped to the hip ring.

[M_Bipartitus]

While I'm not opposed to discussing a class from five years ago, I don't see many of these posts contributing to the OP's question.

 

[mikemill]

Two innocent questions:
1) Is there a right hip D-ring?
2) Besides standardization why couldn't that be used to clip off the SPG?

Assuming #1 is yes (but I don't know for sure) I can see it being a problem if most 1st stages don't have a HP port on the right side. It seems like it could potentially trap the hose if the D-ring was in front of the can light.

 

[UCFKnightDiver]

Two innocent questions:
1) Is there a right hip D-ring?
2) Besides standardization why couldn't that be used to clip off the SPG?

Assuming #1 is yes (but I don't know for sure) I can see it being a problem if most 1st stages don't have a HP port on the right side. It seems like it could potentially trap the hose if the D-ring was in front of the can light.

In the DIR equipment configuration there is no right hip D-ring as that side is reserved for the can light, and clipping anything off there may interfere (trap) with deployment of the long hose.

 

[Rainer]

In the DIR equipment configuration there is no right hip D-ring as that side is reserved for the can light, and clipping anything off there may interfere (trap) with deployment of the long hose.

Harder to check while on the scooter trigger, too.

 

[Gombessa]

I forgot, you guys have an equipment solution to having too many things to clip back there.

Snarky, but I think you know that's not what the "skill over equipment" argument is getting at. If it was, we'd all be doing cave dives with no exposure protection, practicing Buddhist body-heat techniques while sipping air by feathering tank valves. Now that's real maximization of skill skill and minimization of equipment.

Rather, it's about optimizing your process around the equipment needed to safely perform the dive and not adding gratuitously to that. You already need two d-rings to stabilize your bottles. Given that, the real cave divers here have outlined the advantages of the hip d-ring over the chest d-ring. That's not placing equipment over skill, that's benefits outweighing drawbacks.

It's also not considered in a vacuum. Equipment, positioning and "skill" choices are also defined in relation to other principles, including the benefits of keeping the front chest area streamlined and free from clutter. It's two-dimensional to take one maxim in isolation and try to discredit it through reductio ad absurdum.

I would say that hip ring is more clean than the chest as it does not have all the 1st stages and SPGs hanging around there. So technically you only have bolt snaps and lines coming there.

I've also found that the hip d-ring, since it swings freely, makes it easy to push an attached bottle aside in order to feel your way around the d-ring. This makes it the better choice for managing snap positions. The chest d-ring is usually held down by the backup light, making it less ideal for such tactile navigation.

 

[mikemill]

In the DIR equipment configuration there is no right hip D-ring as that side is reserved for the can light, and clipping anything off there may interfere (trap) with deployment of the long hose.

Thanks

 

[M_Bipartitus]

...Given that, the real cave divers here have outlined the advantages of the hip d-ring over the chest d-ring.

Just because cave-divers do it doesn't mean it's done right. If JJ and crew had been fervent wreck divers there likely would have been other conclusions drawn along the way.

 

[PfcAJ]

I wouldn't dive in a cave and it shouldn't matter, a DIR gear setup should be applicable to all environments.

Lol, thanks for brining your extensive cave and technical experience to the discussion. Oh wait... you don't have any.

I'm down for debating stuff, but you have no relevant experience. Entanglement IS an issue in small cave (and wreck too, I imagine). I've seen something as benign as cookies and arrows clipped off get caught in the line.

Streamlining is obvious. If something is sticking out (spg), its not streamlined as is obviously adds drag (surface area). I don't need a PhD so figure this out.

The DIR equipment configuration is completely applicable to just about every situation. OW, wreck, cave, technical, scooter, whatever. Its been shown time and time again.

And BTW, "JJ and crew" have done a fair bit of wreck diving as well. Britannic maybe?

 

[Gombessa]

Just because cave-divers do it doesn't mean it's done right. If JJ and crew had been fervent wreck divers there likely would have been other conclusions drawn along the way.

That's neither here nor there. This conversation is in the DIR forum, and the responses we're framing are in the context of DIR.

If that's not the way you want to dive, that's totally fine, but then you have to ask yourself, why are you here, and what is the relevance of the above statement?

 

[rjack321]

Just because cave-divers do it doesn't mean it's done right. If JJ and crew had been fervent wreck divers there likely would have been other conclusions drawn along the way.

Lol yeah we'd be skipping that pesky entangling line altogether.

Your youth and inexperience is dripping everywhere here, but "JJ & Crew" were practically infants when many of these concepts were being worked out by the previous generation(s) of cave divers. The left hip is a functional, practical place for the SPG which is relatively streamlined, doesn't protrude out/up/down, doesn't get confused with stage SPGs, is functional when scootering with the right hand, doesn't get mixed up with the long hose which must be on the right post, and is accessible for the occasional check.

There's a whole universe of other potential places (e.g. right hip, right chest, left chest, crotch ring, or butt ring) but they all tend to create a slightly and/or vastly larger conflict with another part of the system.

The left hip ends up being the less conflicted overall even though it can pose challenges for new people with gloves, dry glove rings, multiple bottles, leashes, etc.

You are welcome to dive any way you like.