Why the Prejudice about DIR or GUE

[BabyDuck]

as long as it doesn't get in the way of deploying the long hose...

 

[Jasonmh]

Have you LOOKED at the price for those split fins? It's like getting 2 fins for the price of 8.

HAHA... you are right. After I posted that I almost went and changed it caused I realized I wasn't thinking about the price.. and that after paying 190 bucks for split fins myself

 

[lamont]

There is one difference that I can see: "Doing it Right" implies that others are not doing it right. PADI just claims to be a way people learn to dive. If it was "the only way people learn to dive" then it would be more of a problem, something people would find fault with. If it went further to claim "the only way people learn to dive right", then PADI would be claiming that other institutions don't train people right.

Of course, I have friends that look down on me for learning withPADI, because they were NAUI trained. I find that to be just as bad as people bashing because others are or aren't doing it right.

Maybe a better name for DIR would be DIB, (doing it better) or DID (doing it different) One other exmaple of an "extreme" setup is Hogarthian, and the term Hogarthian makes no claims about being right or wrong.

So is everyone who doesn't buy Dive Rite actually Diving Wrong?

For a brief period of time I decided that I hated the term DIR, I decided that I was going to purge my system of it and from then on only use "GUE". So I would consider myself a "GUE Diver" rather than a "DIR Diver"...

Then I totally got over it... Its a three-letter acronym -- I rarely even think about what it means now, and it implies that everyone else is DIW about as much as Dive Rite does to me...

And if you can't get over the DIR/DIW mental block, then honestly I've got better things in my life to do than interact with you... You need to shift out of first gear and start to keep up...

 

[Bigcape]

oh, oh... here's some kerosene... here's some matches



well... hogarthian is a method, DIR is an application of that method?

DIR is hogarthian, with a more cohesive set of requirements

basically, WIlliam HOgarth Main developed a holistic cave diving system stressing minimalism and functionality.

DIR took that and created a set of "rules" for divers to dive as a team during the Wakulla Project (i don't think it was called DIR then)

then Jarrod Jablonski took that "team diving" set of rules and published them as Doing it Right under Global Underwater Explorers (GUE)

GUE runs the DIR-Fundamentals class which is the first step in DIR diving

I don't smell smoke!

That was a great answer, thank you.

 

[Thalassamania]

And if you can't get over the DIR/DIW mental block, then honestly I've got better things in my life to do than interact with you... You need to shift out of first gear and start to keep up...

Too bad it was not coined as Do It Correctly<G>

 

[jeckyll]

The problem is, it appears to me, that pieces of the entire system have been looked at through distortions of a few rather bizarre accidents/incidents which have yielded conclusions that have become dogma. I recognize this in my own system where the bungee auxiliary is anathema as a result of an “incident” that I’ve never been able to document actually occurred (early days of diving, single hose regulator with a mask strap, OOA, victim tried to grab it, strap snapped back, broke the donor’s jaw and he drowned).

Fair enough. And I as I said in a previous post, I think everyone has the right, if not the responsibility, to look at how they dive and make sure that they can deal with whatever situation comes up. It's really between you and your buddy.

I’m not suggesting or panning a standard octo, it has it’s advantages and its drawbacks and is not my method of choice, but that's another discussion that I think we've had several times.

If it's planned for then it's never an emergency.

Planned for and practiced. I completely agree.

 

[lamont]

here’s where you get disagreement. There are advantages to the bungee'd backup concept, not the least of which is the ability to switch to it when your hands are otherwise occupied. But it has two problems that give me pause. The first is that it breaks one of the Prime Directives of the scientific diving world, and that is relying on an auxiliary attachment (e.g. the bungee) to locate something that you’d need in an emergency. That’s just the sort of thing that won’t be there when you need it. Then, since you’ve not practiced and drilled the one sure fire, guaranteed, can’t fail way to recover your auxiliary (reach back, grab the intermediate hose where it attaches to the first stage, encircle the hose, shove your arm out to full extension and voila, the second stage is in your hand) your gonna die, just like the poor stroke (dare I say stroke in this context?) that was last seen repeatedly doing arm sweeps without success.

I see where you're coming from. I'm not totally sure I agree. Since I route the backup hose under the LP inflator if the backup comes off the bungee it will be easy to grab around my neck and up and the first thing I hit will be the hose (and confession time: i did this once when after not doing a proper pre-dive check I found that my necklace wasn't on -- I didn't do it in the heat of an OOA, but the reg was easy to grab).

 

[Kim]

There's nothing wrong with the message. No-one likes the know it all I'm right and you're wrong type though. Now I don't think that applies to the vast majority - I mean let's face it....it's normally the quiet straight-up people that form the majority but they're quiet and get little press. The guys that get the press are the big mouthed noisy minority (as always).
It's the same old same old........those guys get right up your nose whatever it is they're doing!

 

[Jasonmh]

...here’s where you get disagreement. There are advantages to the bungee'd backup concept, not the least of which is the ability to switch to it when your hands are otherwise occupied. But it has two problems that give me pause. The first is that it breaks one of the Prime Directives of the scientific diving world, and that is relying on an auxiliary attachment (e.g. the bungee) to locate something that you’d need in an emergency. That’s just the sort of thing that won’t be there when you need it. Then, since you’ve not practiced and drilled the one sure fire, guaranteed, can’t fail way to recover your auxiliary (reach back, grab the intermediate hose where it attaches to the first stage, encircle the hose, shove your arm out to full extension and voila, the second stage is in your hand) your gonna die, just like the poor stroke (dare I say stroke in this context?) that was last seen repeatedly doing arm sweeps without success.

I understand the rest of your post, but not this part. You say that you disagree that the bungie'd backup is a better choice, but don't say what you think is the better (or best) choice instead of the bungie'd backup. And the "relying on an auxiliary attachment (e.g. the bungee) to locate something that you’d need in an emergency" point, doesn't that apply to pretty much anything used to hold anything while diving, like the octo-holders, etc? Are you trying to say that all choices are the same, since they all rely on some external attachment, or are you saying that there is no point in securing the second stage since the only way to be 100% sure is to grab it at the source and follow it down? It seems that this part of your post is more against using an arm sweep than it is against using a bungie'd backup.

And don't get me started on the "scientific diving" community, I hear they are a bunch of ego maniacs... "Dive with a slide rule or die"

 

[Doubles]

Just add it to the prohibited dirty word list, it will come out ****** and we'll all have to type it at s*t*r*o*k*e!

Then you would be working on your carpel tunnel syndrome....