Why the Prejudice about DIR or GUE

[SparticleBrane]

This thread is growing exponentially. I see another 200 posts in its future.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

And that's fine, but that's not DIR, is it. According to DIR there is only one right way to dive and that's with a long hose and bungeed secondary. Anything else and you're being unsafe. That may be true with regard to cave and wreck penetration but not for standard OW dives.

Actually, that's an old, tired distortion that's been debated here ad nauseum.

It's not "anything else and you're being unsafe" ... it's "anything else is not DIR".

It gets back to what I said earlier about people who know nothing about DIR wanting to get into arguments about why they don't like it.

Just curious ... exactly what do you know about cave and wreck penetration protocols? And where did you receive that training?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[jeraldjcook]

That's a valid observation ... if you haven't been trained to use a long hose, you should not use one.

Fortunately, the training isn't real involved ... a few minutes learning how to properly route the hoses and a couple of dry-land practice OOA switches is about all that's needed.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

But for the OW diving that I do, I don't want one. A couple of times per year I go somewhere topical and since my wife doesn't dive, I'm stuck with some unknown on the boat. In that situation, a diver bolting to the surface is of great concern to me and I need to know that if they're hanging onto my octo/primary whatever, I can pull his dump valve. Heck, I'll hit him in that face if need be to get him to let go. But if he's on a 7' hose I could be in trouble. But again, not an issue for DIR buddies. You can swim on a buddy on a short hose, it's just not as easy.

 

[Doubles]

This thread is growing exponentially. I see another 200 posts in its future.

Your rather conservative.....

talk about topic scope creep...I see at least another 200 topics poping up in this thread as well.....

quick get the horse whip...i thought i saw the thread move

 

[SparticleBrane]

According to DIR there is only one right way to dive and that's with a long hose and bungeed secondary. Anything else and you're being unsafe. That may be true with regard to cave and wreck penetration but not for standard OW dives.

Why should I change my configuration around based on where I'm diving? If it's safest in a cave or wreck penetration, why not use it all the time? Seems like switching between systems is self-defeating.

 

[Soggy]

But according to DIR you can't, period. And that was the whole point.

In OW you can use a 40 - 84" hose primary hose with a bungeed backup. GUE may have revised that to a 5' minimum hose. The important part for open water use, is that you are donating what you are breathing and switching to a backup bungeed around your neck. For a number of reasons, this is a far superior configuration than a typical golden triangle octopus. If you want to argue with me about the benefits of the long hose, I suggest you and I go for a dive somewhere up in Gloucester or Rockport and I can prove it to you.

Most people don't actually use a 40" hose because it doesn't route well (not particularly streamlined), and there is no reason *not* to use at least a 5' hose. I use a 6' hose on my OW rig because it routes best on my body. For technical diving I obviously use a 7' primary hose.

 

[TheRedHead]

Question: I thought the purpose of the "Long Hose" (7') was to be able to pass it forward or backward if in the tight confines of a cave or wreck.

My personal conversion to the long hose came about from my buddy's regulator failure where we had to ascend sharing air and make a looooooooonnnnnnng surface swim back to shore. I thought it would be so much easier if we could swim back under the waves and those DIR guys are definitely onto soemthing with the long hose, even for open water. All of my shifts in thinking and equipment have come from small things that I've experienced or occasionally something I read. My entire experience with DIR up until very recently when diving with a DIR diver had been written material - either GUE books or the net. Initially, I didn't relate to any of it.

 

[Soggy]

But if he's on a 7' hose I could be in trouble.

You obviously haven't been paying attention to the people that actually have experience with this type of configuration...

Personally, if I were out of air, I'd rather not be breathing off a regulator that may or may not have been tested and may or may not have been dragging on the bottom and is now filled with coral or mud. That might make me panic. But that's just me.

 

[lamont]

And that's fine, but that's not DIR, is it. According to DIR there is only one right way to dive and that's with a long hose and bungeed secondary. Anything else and you're being unsafe. That may be true with regard to cave and wreck penetration but not for standard OW dives.

Here's the problem. I would feel less safe diving with an octo, or diving with a buddy with an octo. I would feel less safe diving with an Air-2. Those are my opinions based on my experience and my analysis of how those different systems fit into diving. A whole group of divers (DIR) agree with me and they'd feel less safe diving those ways as well.

If people who dive with an octo or air2 can't handle the fact that we don't feel as safe diving that way, then the problem is really their thin skin.

But according to DIR you can't, period. And that was the whole point.

DIR divers don't. You can. Nobody stopping you.

I should have left this one out because it has nothing to do with DIR. But since we're here. Reading an analyzer I might go along with. I.e. 'check to see that there is nothing other than 21% in your tank'. But I see no need to go beyond that.

Okay, fine. If we get to the point where OW divers analyze their contents and look for 21% but aren't nitrox certified and we get rid of the stupid bumper stickers that works perfectly fine for me. I'll stop whining about it.

No, I'm using them (without attribution) strictly as an example becasue they are exactly what DIR pushes for all diving.

They're what DIR pushes for DIR diving. DIR does not push anything for all diving. If you read the DIR threads, in fact, you will see GUE get repeatedly attacked for not being interested in selling DIR/GUE to the common diver. So what is it? Should we set out to take over the world, or should we only be concerned about our narrow section of the world? The criticism seems to change from day to day...

But the same is not afforded to the members of other forums that are sick and tired of having every thread about someone's choice of BC turn into an argument and ad campaign for BP&W's.

And a lot of the vocal BP/W divers aren't even DIR divers. A bunch of them have had DIRF, but even among those you'll find people who don't hit the kool-aid very hard (e.g. DIRF graduates who dive a BP/W but ocassionally solo with a slung Al40 pony bottle).

You just made my point, which was about why the DIR people get bashed btw. The rules of the board are setup so that the DIR folks can hop into any topic they want and freely disagree and tell everybody about how if they're not diving a BP&W with a long hose and bungeed secondary they're not "doing it right" and are unsafe. However, if someone tries to do the same in DIR territory there's a wail and a howl about how a protected area is needed for them.

The Solo area is similar. The Rebreather forum probably should be similar, except that largely they've all fled over to www.rebreatherworld.com (they've got a *WHOLE SITE* dedicated to them).

First, I don't take anything here personally. This is an internet forum and on the internet you can be anything you want to be. So when I read something here that's of interest I check it out elsewhere too. You know, trust but verify. Btw, I find your comment particularly amusing whereas I didn't comment on this topic until after it had already been moved to the Basic Scuba Discussions forum.

And I know it was in the Basic Scuba Discussion forum. If it was on the DIR forum I would have just said you were wrong, and suggest to pull the post or move the thread. Instead I told you that you were wrong, and why you were wrong.

 

[lamont]

This thread is growing exponentially. I see another 200 posts in its future.

We haven't had a good knock-down-drag-out brawl about DIR in a couple weeks, so we're overdue to rehash everything all over again for a few hundred posts until we all burn out... again...