Why Recreational Triox ??

[boomx5]

In the begining you were far more skeptical than it appears you are now. It seem to me that you are starting to understand the GUE approach to diving, but are still lacking the answers to satisfy your concerns. As someone who has taken a coupe of GUE classes myself I can tell you that the answers you seek are covered at various levels of GUE training. Unfortunately, it is impossible to get every question answered on a message board; which leaves taking the training to get the answers. But you don't want to waste your money taking the training just to get the answers if you are not first sold on what they have to offer. So, where does that leave us? I know, it's definately a quandary.

It would be my suggestion, to meet face to face with Mike, Andrew, JJ or any of the main players at GUE to get the answers you are looking for. Trust me, the answers are forth coming, it's just hard to cover everything on a message board.

If I'm correct ( and please correct me if I'm not Mike), Mike used to be Anti-DIR himself but made the efforts to meet with some of the players to discuss his concerns with the DIR approach. Obviously he got the answers he was looking for, and who knows, you may get the answers your looking for too.

 

[Genesis]

It would be my suggestion, to meet face to face with Mike, Andrew, JJ or any of the main players at GUE to get the answers you are looking for. Trust me, the answers are forth coming, it's just hard to cover everything on a message board.

It is not difficult to answer questions that are posed.

The questions have been intentionally ducked, and the partisans, including the persons with the alleged answers, have responded with personal attacks and insults instead of answers.

GUE has something to sell. If this is how they (and that includes their "volunteer core" such as DD) respond to inquiries, I'm not sure that what they have to sell is something I'm interested in purchasing it from them.

As for the question about the compressor, I own one.

 

[MikeS]

It is not difficult to answer questions that are posed.

The questions have been intentionally ducked, and the partisans, including the persons with the alleged answers, have responded with personal attacks and insults instead of answers.

Please don't take this as a personal attack, but what is the "better value" alternative to GUE Rec Trimix you propose?

GUE has something to sell. If this is how they (and that includes their "volunteer core" such as DD) respond to inquiries, I'm not sure that what they have to sell is something I'm interested in purchasing it from them.

We live in a free market society (government intervention aside), even the Red Cross markets First Aid and Swimming Lessons. What alternative are you proposing?

Mike

 

[Genesis]

Please don't take this as a personal attack, but what is the "better value" alternative to GUE Rec Trimix you propose?

I actually see this as Part 1 of Tech 1, if indeed it is, and perhaps Tech 1 is "enough" for what I want to do (in terms of "getting admission" on various charter operations.)

Rec Triox itself has no particular application in that it gets me nothing I don't already have, but as the first half of something that does, it might be useful in that context.

(I'm also trying to figure out the scheduling for formal cave training as well. I doubt very much that I'll buy TWO sets of cave classes.)

 

[MikeS]

Rec Triox itself has no particular application in that it gets me nothing I don't already have, but as the first half of something that does, it might be useful in that context.

O.K. Perhaps you’ve already exceeded what is has to offer. But what about the PADI trained diver that wants to move beyond vacation diver and learn additional personal skills? IMO it seems wrong to bash it unless you can propose a better alternative. What agency offers better training at a competitive cost?

Disclaimer: I am a PADI DM and I think there is no agency better at training vacation divers. Furthermore, there is nothing wrong with vacation diving and prospective vacation divers should not be forced to deal with issues that are not of concern to vacation divers that would otherwise keep them out of the water. One only has to see a queen angel fish up-close to understand why we should protect the reefs.

Mike

 

[Genesis]

O.K. Perhaps you’ve already exceeded what is has to offer. [/quiote]
Maybe. Maybe not. But I already do dives beyond my formal certifications - that comes from buying certs and finding that I already was doing what I was being certified to do a few times.

But what about the PADI trained diver that wants to move beyond vacation diver and learn additional personal skills?

First define the problem you are trying to solve. Perhaps DIR-F is a good investment for some. The only problem with GUE as a model is that they are rigid enough that many divers will be forced to essentially toss their existing kit, and lots of people will find that offensive (or worse.) Having dove a plate and wing for a good long time myself, but then being handed a jacket at Epcot a couple of weeks ago, I certainly missed my plate - but I could trim and dive the jacket using nothing more than my body position. With some time to actually set it up (they do EVERYTHING for you there - its a "step in and dunk" dive, and overweight you fairly significantly - I figure I was at least 5lbs heavy) I bet I could have gotten my trim back where it is in a plate.

I will admit though that try as I might their mushy split fins were useless; I actually kinda like the Twinjets, but these things felt like - and kicked like - wet noodles.

IMO it seems wrong to bash it unless you can propose a better alternative. What agency offers better training at a competitive cost?
Mike

I'm not "bashing" it. I am pointing out the inconsistencies that I see in the syllabus and asking to debate the rationale.

The first goal for someone considering a given training course is to define the goal!

If you want to learn trim, good buoyancy control, different fin techniques and various other things you should have been taught in OW (but probably weren't) you can either dive a lot and figure it out (the hard way, but perhaps the most personally gratifying!) or perhaps take DIR-F.

Deep diving is really not all that complicated in and of itself. You just go. Its thinking through the issues that come with deep diving that takes the effort, unless you want to do "jump and pray." Is "Triox" the path to that? Maybe, for some people. Maybe not. (BTW, a lot of people DO indeed "jump and pray" - I certainly used to!)

Is it a viable alternative to a Nitrox card? Sure, if you already want DIR-F for some other reason (see above) or have it (ditto), and you'll certainly get "more" than you would out of the typical $199 PADI Nitrox class. Of course you'll pay more in both time and money for it too. But if not, then you have to look at it much more closely, because the investment is considerable to take both classes.

What I dislike intensely is promoting something on the basis of bad (or worse, no!) science because it smacks of salesmanship - and where have we all heard that one before in the dive biz?

I've already outlined my issues with the class as presented; I don't think they're insoluble by any means, but I do believe that selling it as it is doesn't serve anyone all that well, and some of the claims made are suspect at best.

This is coming from a guy who regularly dives below 100' on custom nitrox mixes. Indeed, virtually ALL of the diving locally here (all that's worthwhile anyway) is >70' deep. Essentially all of my bubble time is at these depths, unless I'm on vacation somewhere.

 

[Dan Gibson]

If that isn't one of the most arrogant statements I have ever heard. I suggest you get in the water with Andrew Georgitsis. If you walk into one of his classes with that frame of mind, you are in for a rude awakening. I seriously doubt you could handle Andrew when it comes time for the simulated failures. I know guys that would smoke most everyone on the list and they got their butts kicked in his classes. Do yourself a favor and check that ego of yours. Then take the gamble and try a Fundamentals class. I'm so tired of hearing you spewing your so called knowledge that I would put up the course money for you to take the Fundamentals class. Do you have the balls to except this challenge? If not, STFD and STFU.

Rec Triox itself has no particular application in that it gets me nothing I don't already have...

 

[DeepScuba]

ROTFLMAO

I actually know what those letters mean!

And DAMN that was one clear post!

Can I watch?

And I want to see the cancelled check (I'm Canadian, I call it cheque).

Would you split on my course up here? It's in Canadian dollar-ettes, so it's like $20.oo for your half.

 

[Genesis]

Yet more insults.

Kane, you have wonderful spokesmen for GUE running around here... even if they are unpaid (are they?)

You guys just can't debate the points on the table, can 'ya?

 

[detroit diver]

Whoa! Now THERE's a challenge!!

Now we're talking. The bullsh*t is going to end right here. It's no longer a matter of cost anymore.

Genesis, are you going to take him up on his offer, or duck it with some lame excuse?

Folks, I'm betting on the latter.

If that isn't one of the most arrogant statements I have ever heard. I suggest you get in the water with Andrew Georgitsis. If you walk into one of his classes with that frame of mind, you are in for a rude awakening. I seriously doubt you could handle Andrew when it comes time for the simulated failures. I know guys that would smoke most everyone on the list and they got their butts kicked in his classes. Do yourself a favor and check that ego of yours. Then take the gamble and try a Fundamentals class. I'm so tired of hearing you spewing your so called knowledge that I would put up the course money for you to take the Fundamentals class. Do you have the balls to except this challenge? If not, STFD and STFU.

Rec Triox itself has no particular application in that it gets me nothing I don't already have.../QUOTE]