Why not help someone?

[Kharon]

In regard to the idea of quick and expensive upgrades, dive shops make money on the regular $10 sale from that person who always comes in, is truly a friend, and has value vested in the success of the shop. The constant multi-hundred dollar upgrades are what push people away. We know, we used to be that unknowing customer. When we opened our business, we never wanted to be those guys out for the easy dollar who burned social bridges at every turn. That's why we have a true family of divers. It may not be the biggest in our region, but it is a very loyal one, and we would not have it any other way.

Wish either your shop was near or my shop would learn from you. I think I must have PO'ed the owner by buying a few things (much less expensively) elsewhere. I get arguments and put-downs and sometimes even outright lies almost every time I go there. Why do I keep going there - air fills. The only other shop vaguely close gives me short hot fills every time. Since I'm diving small LP tanks that sux.

It might even be understandable if this was a full time shop - but it's not. Both owners have jobs and the shop is a sideline run from a spare room with a compressor room out in the garage. You can't really just stop and get a fill or buy anything for certain - they are very often out. Moreover they close for weeks at a time while they go on diving trips. Contacting them by email or phone (answering machine) is often met with no return contact. Also, they have limited stock (understandable) and will often disparage things you want to order because they know better and what they carry is better. It probably is for them - but my diving style and needs are different.

I don't mind paying the full shot to fill a small 50cf tank or even a 13cf or 27cf pony. But I get really tired of being put down by a person I'm paying money to. It's also hard to wait 4 weeks or more to get a hydro and sometimes even a vis. The other shop can get the hydro done in 4-7 days but I'm afraid to use them for that because it might PO the owner of my local shop even more.

Sorry for the rant but people who have a great (or even good) shop near them should be grateful.

 

[Superlyte27]

Paragraphs are your friend. Skip a space, indent, break it up man.

 

[BDSC]

"real diver".

I have yet to hear/read a good explanation of what a "real diver" is. Maybe all along folks meant to say "reel diver" as in one who runs a reel when diving. Just thinking out loud here.

 

[scottwilson1]

Wish either your shop was near or my shop would learn from you. I think I must have PO'ed the owner by buying a few things (much less expensively) elsewhere. I get arguments and put-downs and sometimes even outright lies almost every time I go there. Why do I keep going there - air fills. The only other shop vaguely close gives me short hot fills every time. Since I'm diving small LP tanks that sux.

It might even be understandable if this was a full time shop - but it's not. Both owners have jobs and the shop is a sideline run from a spare room with a compressor room out in the garage. You can't really just stop and get a fill or buy anything for certain - they are very often out. Moreover they close for weeks at a time while they go on diving trips. Contacting them by email or phone (answering machine) is often met with no return contact. Also, they have limited stock (understandable) and will often disparage things you want to order because they know better and what they carry is better. It probably is for them - but my diving style and needs are different.

I don't mind paying the full shot to fill a small 50cf tank or even a 13cf or 27cf pony. But I get really tired of being put down by a person I'm paying money to. It's also hard to wait 4 weeks or more to get a hydro and sometimes even a vis. The other shop can get the hydro done in 4-7 days but I'm afraid to use them for that because it might PO the owner of my local shop even more.

Sorry for the rant but people who have a great (or even good) shop near them should be grateful.

I see upstate New York, you close to the border ? maybe pop over to Canada to get serviced ? our dollar is in the tank so there's saving's right there.
you shouldn't have to deal with a pissy LDC owner when your a paying customer.

 

[lemonfish]

Wearing Yates, excellent post. I can honestly say that I have not forgotten what it feels like to be as a beginner. For one thing, I know enough to know that there are a gazillion out there who know more than I. Dive dive Record is very simple and will remain so. Another advantage is years education Band, especially newbies who don't know one end of a trombone from the others. In class I try to throw in a bit of info. for students that I've picked up along the way. You learn so much after the course UW-the things that just cannot be loaded by the timeline class

​

 

[Kharon]

I see upstate New York, you close to the border ? maybe pop over to Canada to get serviced ? our dollar is in the tank so there's saving's right there.
you shouldn't have to deal with a pissy LDC owner when your a paying customer.

Not close enough to the border - several hours one way. I agree, but "shouldn't have to" and reality aren't the same, unfortunately. I'll live with it. Neither a compressor of my own nor a hooka would be good alternatives. I guess I could get a tank to tank yoke equalizer and get the hot fill then rent an 80cf at 3000psi, top off my tanks and then dive the remainder of the 80. Actually that doesn't sound like such a bad idea. I'll have do do some calculations.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Mr. Yates ... welcome to my world. I got a late start in diving ... having received lessons for my 49th birthday. And although I've logged over 3,500 dives since then I have never forgotten that sense of amazement at discovering a world I never imagined existed before I learned how to dive. My journey's taken me around the world a few times, into caves and shipwrecks, and on dives below 250 feet ... and still some of the most incredible wonders I experience are found in 10 feet of water at my local mudhole. Diving's how I relax ... how I enjoy my evening after work ... how I meet new friends, and share good times with old ones.

I don't much care about experience level ... as long as it is sufficient for the conditions we'll be diving in. I always encourage new divers to not worry about using their air too fast or "ruining" my dive ... assuring them that the only way they can do that is to stress out and neglect paying attention to what they're doing. I always get a renewed sense of wonder experiencing dives I've done hundreds of times through the eyes of someone who's never done it before ... I'll be doing exactly that again this week-end, in fact, and am looking forward to it a lot.

We all dive for our own reasons. I see this term "real diver" being used previously and it does cause me to wonder how that gets defined. Is it through experience? Skill level? Dive profiles? It's a hard concept for me to wrap my head around, because the experience of diving is just as real to the new diver ... or the person who visits a warm water destination one week a year ... as it is to those of us who are fortunate enough to live close to dive sites and are able to dive pretty much whenever we want to.

You mentioned becoming a dive professional ... and I must admit that whenever I see a new diver claim that as a goal it raises some red flags. Not because I don't think it's a worthy goal ... it certainly is ... but because it's often the result of a reaction to something new and exciting, and a decision that all too often results in dive instructors with an excess of enthusiasm and a distinct lack of diving skills which they then pass on to those they are training. My advice is to take some time along the way to gain not just skills, but the perspective that comes from using them outside of a class, in a real world environment that sometimes bears little resemblance to what the book or the instructor trainer tells you it will. Real-world skills and experience are every bit as valuable to dive instruction as training ... and often make the difference between someone doing a quality job versus just following a checklist. If you truly aspire to be a dive professional, then aspire to be a good one ... the world already has a surplus of bad ones, and they contribute to a business model that is ultimately unsustainable.

I've been teaching now for 11 years ... and my advice to you or anyone else who's considering going that route is to not get into dive instruction because you love diving ... get into it because you love teaching. Teaching classes is hard work if you do it right ... and bears little resemblance to diving as a recreation. It gets its motivation from the love of watching and helping others to learn, to become better, and it feeds off the enthusiasm and sense of discovery that they bring to the experience. With few exceptions, dive instruction won't make you a lot of money ... but it has rewards that go well beyond monetary value. Go into it for the right reasons, and it'll be a rewarding venture. Go into it thinking it's a way to turn your passion for diving into a living and you'll quite likely burn out after two or three years and become disillusioned with diving altogether ... the majority of people who go down that latter path aren't even diving a few years later. That's the reality.

I like your outlook. I agree with you that we need to always remember where we started ... it helps us stay grounded to the present. Nobody ever got into diving knowing everything there is to know. Ironically, most of us go through cycles where we reach a certain experience level that causes us to start thinking we've got it all figured out ... then we cross a horizon, be it technical diving or some other aspect of the activity, that opens up whole new vistas of things we never even imagined ... and we start the cycle all over again.

That's the beauty of spending time in a world we were never designed to be in ... it's a constant learning opportunity. And in the case of people my age ... as our hair turns gray ... it's a way to keep us feeling young.

Welcome to my world ... may we share it for many years to come ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Bear Yates]

You mentioned becoming a dive professional ... and I must admit that whenever I see a new diver claim that as a goal it raises some red flags. Not because I don't think it's a worthy goal ... it certainly is ... but because it's often the result of a reaction to something new and exciting, and a decision that all too often results in dive instructors with an excess of enthusiasm and a distinct lack of diving skills which they then pass on to those they are training. My advice is to take some time along the way to gain not just skills, but the perspective that comes from using them outside of a class, in a real world environment that sometimes bears little resemblance to what the book or the instructor trainer tells you it will. Real-world skills and experience are every bit as valuable to dive instruction as training ... and often make the difference between someone doing a quality job versus just following a checklist. If you truly aspire to be a dive professional, then aspire to be a good one ... the world already has a surplus of bad ones, and they contribute to a business model that is ultimately unsustainable.

Bob,

I appreciate the advice. It's not my love for diving that has me on the path working to be an instructor. My river began a long time ago while I was still in the military. I spent over a decade in the Army and the better part of that time training soldiers, and that was an experience. When I could no longer continue in the profession I loved so much, I knew I wanted to continue to work helping others. So I looked at different fields to do just that. Which led me to Diving. Before September of 2014 I'd never even put this kind of gear on. I'm definitely not trying to take easy roads to my goal. I've been working with some great guys trying to learn everything I can and get in the water at every possible chance to work on skill sets. My course will continue over the next 2-3 years before I'm at a point for what I want to do, which is work with Public Safety teams. My goal is to help others who help others. To do everything I can to ensure the people who are willing to step into harms way and either help someone find peace or help those responding to an emergency come back alive. Again, thanks for the insight.

Bear Yates

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

...given your background, maybe you should look into one of the programs that helps wounded soldiers ... there are at least a couple of different programs that use scuba diving as therapy for amputees and those who come home from battle with both mental and physical disabilities. I've considered it, but someone with a military background (which I don't have) would be far more valuable to those programs ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[tye1138]

I do remember my first experiences like they were yesterday, even though it was 15 years ago. It's so awesome learning something entirely new, you're so excited and want to share the experience with everyone else. I think some people focus too much on sharing the experience, rather then soaking in all the information they can first.

My OW instructor was from the military and was a great mentor. He took me under his wing, taught me things nobody else would dare go near due to insurance reasons, advancing my comfort and skills without me even knowing. To me, it was a bunch of fun and games, to him it was about sharing his experiences and turning me into someone who could truly help him. He needed my expertise in web development and marketing, I needed his expertise in SCUBA diving so I could take it to the next level.

We started a company to teach SCUBA diving independently using our own curriculum. We bought rental gear for our students, a truck to carry the gear and used a local chain of fitness centers for their pool facilities. We expanded the regular 4 day course into 6 days and taught our classroom sessions right at the pool so students could practice what they learned right away. Our classes were focused on having fun and we tried to make every moment entertaining and exciting. We found most people didn't even know how to swim, so from the very beginning we taught everyone basic swimming skills including strokes, breath holding, skin diving and treading water. Everyone needed to be super comfortable in the water, before we'd move on. Sometimes that meant, students who were struggling with basics, would come in early the following class to work on those issues. It didn't matter how much time we spent, the only thing that mattered is if our students felt comfortable in and under the water. Since we had 4 pool sessions, it allowed our students to experiment heavily and by the time they hit the open water, they were already excellent divers. The ocean then offered them new challenges, rather then still focusing on the basics.

The most rewarding part about teaching SCUBA diving for me, is knowing my students are more prepared and better divers then most instructors.

As we found out, you will never make money teaching SCUBA diving if you wish to do it right. We struggled to make ends meet for two years and eventually shut the company down because it was too much work for no money. We were both broke, barley able to make ends meet and moved on to other businesses. We both kept teaching and mentoring on our own, using extra gear we had. However, after a few years, things slowed down and we both go busy doing other things. I tried to assistant instruct with an LA County instructor, but I had a severe inner ear issue which flared up suddenly, which forced me to take a break from diving all together.

I'm back diving now, working with a great group of people in hopes of sharing my experiences once more.