why not a poodle jacket

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So Sas, do you really think there's a difference between this...

<Halcyon BP/W>

And this...

<christmas tree>

:confused:

In recreational diving I think you can pretty much make anything work, even no BC :) (which I have done when I broke my old BC, no biggy). I have borrowed poodle jackets when doing rec dives interstate when I can't be bothered taking a lot of gear. I really don't find it bothersome at all. Of course, I find my BP/W more comfortable but if I had to only dive with a poodle jacket for the rest of my life I'd think meh oh well...

So hence why I don't think a lot of gear choice in rec diving is worth worrying about, whatever makes one comfortable.

In a cave though, I see using a poodle jacket as a really poor choice in gear.

And mpetryk, I seriously would not bother with a single tank cave course... That's more of a concern than poodle jacket.
 
And mpetryk, I seriously would not bother with a single tank cave course... That's more of a concern than poodle jacket.

Saspotato, thank you for one of the few useful comments I have received.

I was thinking of the singles course since I would learn something while not needing to buy doubles (the nearest caves to me are about 2000 km away).
 
Gotta agree with others here, what is up with your obsession with the bouyancy control devices?

If you want to dive with a poodle jacket (which a rear inflate is not), then fine, go be another Jeff Hancock. I think his SM rig is basically a modified poodle jacket. He's real popular in cave country, everyone loves him, he's jolly, like Santa.



And if you really aren't trolling, even subconsciously, compare your Zeagle to the Dive Rite Transpac. It's as close as you can get to the offspring that a backplate and wing would have if married to a recreational BC.

Technical diving requires technical gear. Used backplate and wing setups are relatively cheap, Zeagle gear holds value pretty well, sell your Zeagle, buy a used BP/W which will last you for most of your diving career, and stop overthinking this. What you need in a system is ultimate flexibility, which is provided by one piece 2" webbing, triglides and D-rings.


(when it comes to cave courses, in general, you want ultimate flexibility, and ultimate redundancy, which you cannot have with a single tank. For that reason, I would strongly advise against taking a class which will teach you to dive without that redundancy. Rent some doubles, practice in doubles, become proficient in doubles, then take the class in doubles, if you really don't want to buy them. )
 
Gotta agree with others here, what is up with your obsession with the bouyancy control devices?

JahJahwarrior,

Scuba is an obsession. I am trying to learn different viewpoints to inform myself.

And if you really aren't trolling, even subconsciously...

I am not. My questions seem to make people uncomfortable.

If you suspect that I am trolling, as a mod, you know how to deal with this. So, if you think that I am trolling, deal with it. If not, why mention it?

Technical diving requires technical gear. Used backplate and wing setups are relatively cheap, Zeagle gear holds value pretty well, sell your Zeagle, buy a used BP/W which will last you for most of your diving career, and stop overthinking this. What you need in a system is ultimate flexibility, which is provided by one piece 2" webbing, triglides and D-rings.

Your comments have been unusually constructive compared to others in this thread. My comments above notwithstanding, thanks for the feedback.
 
Saspotato, thank you for one of the few useful comments I have received.

I was thinking of the singles course since I would learn something while not needing to buy doubles (the nearest caves to me are about 2000 km away).

You have a hard overhead, you need to think about how serious this is. Single tank when you can't ascend to the surface is not a good idea no matter how good your buddy is. I can go a long long way into a cave on a third of my single tank and would not have a hope in hell of getting out if I had something go wrong and I could not access the rest of my gas.

I just do not think the course on a single tank is a good idea, don't even like it for cavern (but twins were mandatory in my cavern).
 
Saspotato, thank you for one of the few useful comments I have received.

I was thinking of the singles course since I would learn something while not needing to buy doubles (the nearest caves to me are about 2000 km away).
How does this justify not using a redundant gas supply? Are caves safer for traveling divers?

BTW there are plenty of cave instructors who are willing to take in less than optimal gear, push divers through certification with minimal skills, and don't even care about personal fitness, so if you'd like to go all out and cut corners on more than just gear, PM me and I'll send you some suggestions.
If you suspect that I am trolling, as a mod, you know how to deal with this. So, if you think that I am trolling, deal with it. If not, why mention it?
Agreed, can we just hit the ban button?
 
How does this justify not using a redundant gas supply? Are caves safer for traveling divers?

I just assumed that if, say, NACD allowed it, they weren't simply hiding the dead bodies in a very deep cave.

BTW there are plenty of cave instructors who are willing to take in less than optimal gear, push divers through certification with minimal skills, and don't even care about personal fitness, so if you'd like to go all out and cut corners on more than just gear, PM me and I'll send you some suggestions.

These instructors were kind to you and gave you a pass? :)

Agreed, can we just hit the ban button?

Please, put me on your Ignore list.
 
I just assumed that if, say, NACD allowed it, they weren't simply hiding the dead bodies in a very deep cave.
Incident free and safe are not the same thing.

Please, just put me on your Ignore list.
Debating it, but you make for a good laugh.
 
I am not taking a course right now, and I have not signed up for one yet, so I have no instructor. I am asking you, Bob, or anyone else who has insight into this matter. I am clearly not a BP/w diver, nor am I (in this thread) trying to pick I fight with one. I am seeking input form the SB community, and I hope to receive some useful feedback.

The reason I said you should be asking your instructor is because, AFAIK, a BP/W is not an agency requirement for this class ... therefore it is an instructor requirement ... therefore only your instructor can explain to you why he/she requires it.

One of the key elements of choosing a cave instructor is that they should be able to explain the "why" of anything they require you to do. If they cannot, you should not choose that instructor.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Just seems like I have seen you posting questions about why a BP/W is better than your non-BP/W rig before. Search function answers this question pretty adequately, as hundreds of people have been in your shoes before, including me. What ultimately swayed me was knowing the rig was infinitely adjustable to fit me perfectly, the parts will almost never wear out and when they do, fixing it costs only a few dollars for new webbing, and the rig is so simple and decluttered, no recreational rig, including tech-creational rigs like the Transpac, can compare. (of course, this is based on a hogarthian setup, not the silly "luxury" harnesses which negate those decluttering benefits) I do recall making one thread on TDS about BC's, and how to make them more comfortable, or something along those lines, and people wanted to string me up for even mentioning BC's. I learned my lesson after that: don't overthink it, and read what others have written, and most importantly, ask someone who does a lot ofcave diving what they use. That led to my purchase of a BP/W.

You don't fit my understanding of a troll perfectly, but others had mentioned the possibility, and I know there are plenty of people who enjoy trolling the technical community... I wasn't declaring that you were a troll as a moderator, so much as mentioning it since others had, as a user. I suspect the reason they mentioned it, is because of your other threads on this issue in other parts of the forum, and the way you seem to attempt to pick a fight that so far, hasn't been shown to exist (ie, several instructors have said they know of no such requirement, and you apparently haven't spoken to your instructor about the issue, so you might be making up an issue that doesn't even exist) I doubt any of them consider you a nuisance member, and if they do, I'm sure they know how to report your posts. As a moderator, I haven't seen anything in this thread that required any moderator action, and didn't mean to imply that I did, but I do understand how my statement could seem to, my mistake. :)


Imho, cave diving is more dangerous the less you do it. Before you get too involved in the hobby, you might should consider how active you will be, and take steps to ensure you see some time in a cave on a regular basis to keep your skills sharp, as good skills are just as important as proper gear.


[a quick addition after seeing ucfdiver's post-- there are probably hundreds of instructors that violate some minor standard on a daily basis with their students and get away with it. There are hundreds more than minimally meet standards. Finally, there are a few amazingly good instructors that go above and beyond to give students not just the minimum required training, but an excellent class that ensures the student will be the "cream of the crop." FIND THOSE INSTRUCTORS! That is something I cannot stress enough. Far too many instructors do shoddy work, and it kills people, but is hard to prove and is almost always such an indirect cause of death that nothing can or will be done about it.]
 
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