Why new divers looking into instructor and tech diving

[Graeme Tolton]

Slow down, you are going to get yourself killed.

 

[boulderjohn]

I dont buy the whole I need 500 dives before I can go into caves. I am doing the right path, found the best instructors and dive with them all the time.

Everything depends upon the quality of the dives that lead up to it. Although David Shaw did die on his last dive, he was at about 900 feet doing a dive few people on the planet could even contemplate. He was a very celebrated cave diver then, and I believe his last dive was number 336. (If I am wrong, I am not far off.)

 

[Graeme Tolton]

Everything depends upon the quality of the dives that lead up to it. Although David Shaw did die on his last dive, he was at about 900 feet doing a dive few people on the planet could even contemplate. He was a very celebrated cave diver then, and I believe his last dive was number 336. (If I am wrong, I am not far off.)

David Shaw died because he was trying to be a hero. Imo, bringing up a corpse that has been uw for 10 years is not heroic. We have rov's for that.

Learning to tech dive is a lot more involved than the skills for ow or aow. The core skills have to become second nature long before attempting to add the additional multi-tasking.

I had 200 dives before i moved into doubles. Another 100 before i did the an/dp course. However, i started diving when i was 15, 15 years ago. The core skills had a long time to cement themselves into my head before i thought that deco was a good idea.

 

[DaleC]

I started solo diving at about dive #23. When you start is not the point. It is whether one is pursuing training because one really feels drawn to a particular activity and needs to close the knowledge gap or whether one is pursuing training for it's own sake. A lot of people turn pro after MSD and 50 dives because, apparently, that's the next logical step. A lot of people look to tech because they've done a handful of OW dives and have seen it all and are seeking the next water cooler moment.

OW is a very large arena wherein the diver can hone and perfect their skills and spend the time to learn what really speaks to them about being UW. Rarely (though occasionally) does that happen in 25-50 dives. That's the point. Training isn't bad perse, it just needs to be spaced out so it can sink in and make sense within the type of diving one really is going to do.

 

[charlesml3]

Why rush into something that you (he) are (is) not ready.

I see a lot of new divers who believe that taking a lot of classes will make them good divers. It isn't true, unfortunately. There's no substitute for experience. Yes, there are some classes that teach skills but a diver will never really master those skills until they've made some dives under varying conditions and practiced them. Simply having the C-card isn't enough.

 

[Griffo]

I fell in love with wreck diving on my very first dives out of OW. I knew I wanted to dive wrecks, and it quickly became apparent that the only way (safely) was by going tech. That's my motivation for wanting to go tech.
So with only 40 dives in my logbook, I did Fundies. Only got a rec pass (all I wanted anyway) but it gave me the base skills that I need to start down the tech path.
So rather than having to unlearn or re-learn anything, the basic underwater skills are now being practiced the way that i will need to use in the future.

To the poster that said that people need to have shed loads more dives before even thinking about it, I disagree. Doing a cave course yeah sure, but doing an intro to tech style course where they teach you proper trim, propulsion, and how to do skills mid-water is an advantage for a novice diver. I've only managed to get in 30 dives post fundies, but I reckon my general comfort and ability under water is 10 times that it would have been if I had just done that same number of dives trying to learn on my own.

 

[TSandM]

One of the most cogent remarks anyone has made to me about diving was made by a friend who videoed my Fundies class. She said, "Fundies is a class that can make a 20 dive diver LOOK like a 100 dive diver . . . but they still AREN'T a 100 dive diver."

I did a dive the other night with a couple who was entirely new to me. They were from out of town, and had asked for a weekday dive buddy to see some local sites. We ran into a fairly major issue underwater, which took all three of us to solve it, and throughout the whole thing, I kept wondering whether the woman (who was the diver with the problem) was okay mentally or not. In the end, she did everything she should have done, including some quick creative thinking, as did I, and as did her husband. THAT's what comes with experience. We were all completely comfortable in the water, even though they were in temperatures and water conditions that were previously unknown to them. We all had enough bandwidth to preserve the viz and maintain our position, even as we brainstormed solutions for a novel issue.

People who do a whole lot of training real fast may have awesome skills, but they don't have the depth and breadth of experience that gives them poise, and provides them with a toolbox of ideas for problem-solving underwater.

 

[DaleC]

I fell in love with wreck diving on my very first dives out of OW. I knew I wanted to dive wrecks, and it quickly became apparent that the only way (safely) was by going tech. That's my motivation for wanting to go tech.
So with only 40 dives in my logbook, I did Fundies. Only got a rec pass (all I wanted anyway) but it gave me the base skills that I need to start down the tech path.
So rather than having to unlearn or re-learn anything, the basic underwater skills are now being practiced the way that i will need to use in the future.

To the poster that said that people need to have shed loads more dives before even thinking about it, I disagree. Doing a cave course yeah sure, but doing an intro to tech style course where they teach you proper trim, propulsion, and how to do skills mid-water is an advantage for a novice diver. I've only managed to get in 30 dives post fundies, but I reckon my general comfort and ability under water is 10 times that it would have been if I had just done that same number of dives trying to learn on my own.

I'm curious what skills you think you would have had difficulty unlearning or relearning? Can you name one please. I think a great myth is that following a single pathway from start to finish will make one a better technical diver than some early exposure to multiple disciplines.

An overriding skillset the technical diver needs to develop is being able to solve problems at depth, possibly alone, and the best way to do that is by having a variety of experiences and methodologies to choose from. Adaptability or lateral thinking isn't really developed from the narrowing your experience pool to a single set of solutions.

Another overriding skillset is the capacity to put up with discomfort or troubling conditions for extended periods without bailing to the surface. Being able to dive in sub optimal conditions also does not come from continually seeking optimal situations.

Spending time at the rec level allows one to develop the breadth of experience necessary in conditions that may be uncomfortable at times, but usually non lethal. Diving with other divers, from other disciplines, allows the diver to see many possible ways to address similar issues.

 

[NAM001]

Dr

Look what you just posted.
First line you incinuate if i were your instructor you would set me straight. Immature childish display borne from lack of experience. you dont like youre accocmplishments being challenged
Line 2 --- II think you would find many who agree and applaude you
Line 3 --- You do have someones life in your hands. Expecially i fyou are talking teck cave deep. the only way not to be is if you do it solo. and thats a whole other thread. bad juju
Line 4 --- You are challenging others like it is a competition. competition is for feeding the ego. ego feeding is a trait that is best left on shore.

I think you need to rethink your outlook on your expectations. Take time to enjoy diving. That c card only says you have received training and have shown minimal level of competance while being monitored by the instructor that holds you card in hostage in exchange for demonstrating performance. It does not mean you have common sence, good judgement or good skills any more than you dont have bad breath after you get your card.

If you have your fundies behind you , great, that will make things so much easier for your further training, as it reduces your task loading. You are well on your way to higher levels of training. Take time along that way to smell the flowers and learn how to remove the occasional sticker from your sloths before you venture into the roses.

Care to back that up?

---------- Post Merged at 05:51 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 05:46 PM ----------




I guess it is a good thing you are not my instructor then

I dont buy the whole I need 500 dives before I can go into caves. I am doing the right path, found the best instructors and dive with them all the time.

I do not have anyone elses life in my hands, just my own.

But if you want to come judge my skills yourself, I will be in Tobermory at the end of September doing my final AOW dives

 

[eelnoraa]

I'm curious what skills you think you would have had difficulty unlearning or relearning? Can you name one please.

I can name quite a few from my fundie experience. I was pretty green when I took fundie, so this is my obervation from students who have way more experience, and way better divers (no kidding) than me. Again, not everyone will have this habbit, maybe you don't.

1. getting use to donate the long hose.
2. when donate long hose, grab the hose next to the 2nd stage, not the 2nd stage itself.
3. clip off long hose when you are not using it, out of water or in water
4. shaking light mean in stress, not "hey, look at that fish"
5. control descent with the team, not descent and wait at the bottom, even the bottom is 30 feets
6. be aware of the state of your teammates (closely), stop and fix things if they are out of place
7. maintain trim even when task loaded, that means head up, butt clinch .. proper prosture

I can easily name more. The thing is you need to be able to do those naturally without need to think about it. If you got used to old habbits that do it in another way, then you may have to hard time making the change in the short period of time. Also, these all seems like simple and small things, but this is what fundie is about, getting the small things, the fundamental, right