Why is DIR controversial?

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namabiru:
Hello,
...but I still haven't formulated a clear answer as to why DIR is controversial.
I don't think DIR is controversial. Else the mainstream agencies would not be adopting some of the criteria and courses in their offerings. What DIR did bring in the past was a number of very vocal and egocentric individuals who ranted about the superiority of DIR over other training(standards).... this did not go down well and we all know how long people remember things. Especially on the net.
 
catherine96821:
I have a theory that it could be a financial rub, just a little.

Given that a large part of the DIR community in Oahu is military I don't really buy that one. Open Water DIR can be less expensive than the swimming christmas trees the dive shops would like to make every new OW diver. Throwing away all of the crap and starting over with a DIR rig can be costly, but that is due to the initial "mistake" (since this is in the DIR forum). Being DIR for dives that are really out there is expensive. If a person can't afford to do the dive properly, for safety reasons, the DIR attitude is they shouldn't make the dive. Following this logic, DIR divers, won't do more advanced dives with non-DIR divers. This is seen as elitism whereas really it is just because it conflicts with DIR mindset of safety first. At this point the "there is more than one way to dive," "cave diving is different than X diving" and similar arguments come out. Those arguments have been repeatedly proven wrong, but I tend to just tune out now rather than bothering to argue.
 
RTodd:
Given that a large part of the DIR community in Oahu is military I don't really buy that one. Open Water DIR can be less expensive than the swimming christmas trees the dive shops would like to make every new OW diver. Throwing away all of the crap and starting over with a DIR rig can be costly, but that is due to the initial "mistake" (since this is in the DIR forum). Being DIR for dives that are really out there is expensive. If a person can't afford to do the dive properly, for safety reasons, the DIR attitude is they shouldn't make the dive. Following this logic, DIR divers, won't do more advanced dives with non-DIR divers. This is seen as elitism whereas really it is just because it conflicts with DIR mindset of safety first. At this point the "there is more than one way to dive," "cave diving is different than X diving" and similar arguments come out. Those arguments have been repeatedly proven wrong, but I tend to just tune out now rather than bothering to argue.

Are all Tech divers DIR?
 
Thank you all for your responses, and once again I'm not intending to rock the boat or cause arguments to break out by inquiring about the origin of the controversies. I think I better understand where the issues lie, and it's more with human nature than the procedures themselves.

Truthfully, I'd love to take the Fundamentals course, or at least go hear a lecture. If one were being offered in my area, I'd make every effort to go and listen, as long as it wasn't too costly (once again, being a student makes huge expenditures even bigger).

As a relatively new diver (23 dives in), I'm like a sponge, soaking in information and remaining open to new ideas. As H2Andy said, if someone has a different procedure and wants to show me, sure, why not? I pay attention to how other divers dive and prepare themselves for diving, not to criticize but to learn.

Tom Smedley, I'd love to come dive with you! Alabama's a bit far right now though...
 
Given that a large part of the DIR community in Oahu is military I don't really buy that one.




Are people true to their convictions? That is what I ask myself before following. Some DIR are, some are not. Even on Oahu.
 
catherine96821:
The Oahu "DIR" is a whole nother story.


Suffice it to say that the shop that promotes "it" also puts new OW divers on the Sea Tiger, at night when they are in "other" mode. So...basically, it is whatever makes a buck, for them, IMO. (not that there is anything wrong with that)

And, anything perceived as "advanced training", will draw most military "types"

Are people true to their convictions? That is what I ask myself before following. Some DIR are, some are not. Even on Oahu.

I was referring to the handful of guys I know there and probably over generalized. I have been in that store and have heard a few stories regardig its diving, neither struck me as remotely DIR. I agree that "advanced diving" probably tends to attract more military guys. However, all of the guys I know there are just OW. My cracker jack box psych answer is that people that are used to conforming to set rules are more open to seeing the benefits of a structured KISS principle approach to diving than the personal preference crowd.
 
plus, officers spending most of their lives in combat, have plenty of disposable income, not much opportunity in Haditha or Ramadi to buy toys.

he he.

I know what you mean. But, no kidding, they do come back with some "disposable" money if they don't have kids and x-wives.

all I am saying, is that "the military" gets targeted just like any other population. Tell them it's heavy duty, tough, and elite, and there will always be a group of guys lining up. They aren't the people buying the pink fins and the PADI nature-kit.
And there will always be operators wanting that big fat easy cash contract of being on the feds "compound". Many of those kids don't shop online or even have cars yet--they just walk in with their paycheck. A lot of thought goes into getting into the military's pockets, from what I see.

Then there will be people like me, who would take the class but always have something they want MORE. Like a dome port or a ticket or a villa in Bali, etc, etc.
And, I admit, I try and get information on my own a lot. It seems more fun sometimes.

And, as nuts as it sounds, you can pick your teacher.
 
I agree with those that think the controversy does not lie with the tenets of DIR, but with the misconceptions about DIR.

At times these misconceptions come from both sides of the apparent controversy. I think it's fueled by both the people who seem to be leading the charge against DIR, as well as, those who have just taken a DIR-F class and now feel that they know everything about DIR and how that compares to all other styles and philosophies of diving.

I also think that these days anyone who uses the word "stroke" in reference to another diver in any way besides as a tongue in cheek joke is trolling for controversy and trying to stir the pot to draw people into a fight.

The reality concerning the DIR diving that I've been exposed to in Southern California, has been quite different from the caricature of DIR that is perpetuated by people on the Internet.

DIR is simply a system and philosophy for recreational and technical recreational diving. It's not the only one and most of the proponents of DIR who I have met, think that anyone should be able to dive however they want to. It's their choice. DIR is not for everyone.

The more advanced a dive gets the more important it is to have people on your team who adhere to your team's standards and procedures whether that be a DIR team or something else. Some people are offended by that process of exclusion. To say that a team should not exclude someone because they do not have similar training and dive philosophy, is to impose your own philosophy on them by asking them to change the uniformity and standardization that is at the core of unified team diving. That would be no different than what the team is being accused of in the first place.

Whatever the style and philosophy is that someone chooses, they do so because the information that they have gathered has led them to believe that whatever they have chosen makes sense for them as the best choice for themselves. This is true of all DIR and non-DIR diving. Everyone on all sides of the issue believes that they are "right". That just makes sense or they wouldn't be doing whatever it is that they are doing.

This obviously does not take into account the many people who just don't have an opinion yet and are still gathering information. I believe that this is the category into which a vast majority of divers fall.

I'm still at the early stages of my DIR training and don't pretend to know all of the answers. I do however take it seriously and endeavor to learn as much about the system as possible. For me, it has dovetailed nicely with my original "old school" training that I started with in the late 70s. I see it as a logical extension of that training. I could have chosen a different path to advancing my dive education, but after gathering information felt that DIR training from GUE was the answer for me.

I see DIR as a system and philosophy of diving that has been assembled as an extensive list of "best practices" for diving as a unified team. These recommendations have been passed down from those who have put the system together as a result of rigorous use in a harsh and unforgiving environment. For the most part, they have not invented anything new, but simply codified what they have learned into a system that can be effectively taught to others. Sometimes these "best practices" are developed as a result of someone paying the ultimate price.

The DIR system is still evolving and encourages individuals to be "thinking" divers who understand the reasons for the choices that have been made. As time goes by, changes are made in favor of things that may be better as "best practices". As a system, it is not static and unchanging but evolving and ever improving.

There are those outside of DIR who have put together systems and philosophies for diving as a unified team. Many of these other ways of doing things are valid ways of conducting this type of diving. That said, there seem to be more similarities than differences between the varying systems.

In fact, even within "DIR" circles there are variations in "best practices".

For instance, you have training from GUE (the original source of DIR training led by Jarrod Jablonski), which recommends certain standard gas mixes be used when conducting dives to different depths.

The former training director of GUE, Andrew Georgitsis, is now teaching under the banner of NAUI Tec. Most people would argue that he is still a DIR diver even though he is no longer affiliated with GUE.

Andrew has chosen different gas mixes as the standard mixes that he teaches for conducting dives to different depths. It's still a standard, but the standard that has been settled on by Andrew is a bit different than the standard settled on by GUE.

It's not necessarily a question of "right" or "wrong", but an issue that we can simply recognize as "different". I think it is good to argue on an academic level about whether one set of gases is better suited as a standard than another. I feel that to be divisive on a personal level about the choice of gases is not necessary and that it is actually harmful to the promotion of unified team diving as a whole. The main point, in my opinion, is that people in both DIR camps agree that standard gas mixes are the answer from the standpoint of "best practices". Obviously within a team, one standard needs to be chosen. Reasons for choosing one standard over another is up to the members on that team.

I hope that this helps shed some light on the apparent controversies that exist.

Christian
 
And...if you are diving in places where there is no team, is that is a consideration in the "DIR or Not?" , if you are a purist?

I wonder if explaining who DIR is not for, from a DIR perspective, would be helpful?
 
catherine96821:
And...if you are diving in places where there is no team, is that is a consideration in the "DIR or Not?" , if you are a purist?
Not diving as a team would be, by definition, not DIR since the team is a pivotal concept of DIR. Is that what you're asking? The team concept is what's behind the standardization as well: To make the all the team members similar such that any member of the team can help any other member of the team and not have to spend perhaps precious moments figuring out how the other team member is configured.

Hick's law is the driving force for standardization .

Roak
 
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