Why is becoming a DM considered not worth it?

[Isa.nerwen]

At least in this country:
1) you pay for the DM course (and get your plastic card while learning nothing)
2) you pay for insurance
3) you assume a significant duty of care and liability for baby divers
4) you get paid in "free air" and "shop discounts" for spending YOUR time helping out someone else's business.

It's all bullsheet

I don't understand how this is ********. Of course you pay for the course, it's a course, doesn't it work like that in every place and every field?
Of course you get duty of care for baby divers isn't that the job?
Most work in life is working for someone else or someone else's company
What are you saying?

 

[Isa.nerwen]

I am one of those who would argue that the earlier you do an introductory tech course, the better it is

Essentially, if you do it late you will have to unlearn your bad habits (everyone has them), and only after you can really learn new stuff. In my experience, the unlearning process is VERY painful (my personal experience). Most instructors agree with me - not all of them.



It probably won't. But one thing is to get tips and tricks, another one is a structured approach to learning new stuff. Are you looking for tips and tricks, or to learn new skills with some well-defined expectations?

Ok I do understand the factor learning/unlearning bad habits and it makes a lot of sense.

I think I'm mostly looking at trick and tips, like if I do DMT i would ask my instructor things like "what do you think about my trim? How can I improve it?" and this sort of things.

 

[Isa.nerwen]

Where had you dived in Malaysia?
Where had you been in Philippines?
Cost of living is lower in Philippines than Thailand. Look it up.
Only Koh Tao has similar diving rate as in most places in Philippines. You probably had read a lot about the expensive private transfer but there is a much cheaper way ie. public.

You might be right regarding Philippines, I was thinking more about backpacking there.
I still prefer to do it somewhere I have been before rather than in a new place

 

[ginti]

I think I'm mostly looking at trick and tips, like if I do DMT i would ask my instructor things like "what do you think about my trim? How can I improve it?" and this sort of things.

For:
- fundamental skills (buoyancy/trim/propulsion)
- environmental and team awareness
- basic skills (SMB deployment, sharing gas, valve drill)
Tips and tricks don't work well.

Introductory tech courses focus exactly on these three aspects. It seems to me you want to get the benefit of an introductory tech course by doing a completely different course

Consider this path:
- do a tech course NOW (you should be able to do it even in singles and without dry suit)
- start DM just after, for the lifestyle experience

EDIT: anyway, I don't want to convince you, if you have further questions feel free to ask, otherwise I wish you the best and I hope you will have so much fun on your DM experience!

 

[Isa.nerwen]

For:
- fundamental skills (buoyancy/trim/propulsion)
- environmental and team awareness
- basic skills (SMB deployment, sharing gas, valve drill)
Tips and tricks don't work well.

Introductory tech courses focus exactly on these three aspects. It seems to me you want to get the benefit of an introductory tech course by doing a completely different course

Consider this path:
- do a tech course NOW (you should be able to do it even in singles and without dry suit)
- start DM just after, for the lifestyle experience

EDIT: anyway, I don't want to convince you, if you have further questions feel free to ask, otherwise I wish you the best and I hope you will have so much fun on your DM experience!

It makes a look of sense to be honest.
So my plan is to go to Thailand and I'm targeting dive schools that also offer tech courses so I can check directly when I'm there.
The only thing now is to see if I can afford to do both because honestly my main main goal right now is to live that lifestyle for a few months, otherwise i have to go back to "real life" and in not ready for that

 

[Blackcrusader]

Enjoy your course. You should already have trim and buoyancy mastered before starting the course. That just comes from diving and training you should already have. As my vacation diving is just doing 3 - 4 dives a day for 10 - 12 diving days several times a year that helps. But I own all my own gear and I can just setup and boom, have either horizontal or vertical trim and dive inverted.

I dive using a Shearwater Perdix with 45/95 setting. This means I have longer NDL times than guides with Suunto DC's. So guides are more limited at depth than I am on dives. If it's just me and the guide I am the one leading the dive the guide follows me lol.

So take this dive, it was the second dive of the day. DM and another diver who is rescue and deep certified but not lots of dives. DM on Sunnto other diver no DC so sticks with DM. Ok so first dive was a deeper than 30m dive. DM switches to another Suunto for second dive. Reason? NDL limits. We are on 21% air.

So the DM ascends after sometime as he runs out of NDL to stay with me. As you can see its not a deep dive. But my profile is reasonably square. Now this is the last day of my dives so was my 29th dive in 10 days. After we get on the boat the other diver is asking why the DM didn't check my air? I reply with well you are also my dive buddy why didn't you ask to check my air if so concerned lol Don't rely on a DM to do everything for you.

He's like.. dang yeah why didn't he ask himself. The next dive he did. Anyway the guide didn't check as we did all but one day of dives together. Also on this dive the dive buddy had a nice fill 205 bar and I had 190 bar. I finished this dive with 100 bar and he finished with around 60 bar but was a lot shallower. Why the difference? He is half my size. But I just have far more diving experience. I'm also a bit weird that I am good on air for my size.

Go enjoy your DM course and do a lot of diving. The diving will bring you more experience which for me if worth more than a DM Certification. I do lead dives with personal dive buddies. This is one thing we should all be able to do without a DM Course.
You will learn a lot from leading others on a dive. I would ask to lead dives where the others divers are experienced divers not just recently certified divers. Then start dealing with recently inexperienced divers after you certify. My humble opinion.

Certainly look into tec courses. But you will also need a very good DC like the Shearwater and learn about gradient factors and deco diving. I learned deco diving in my BSAC Sports dive courses and I was in a BSAC club 1986 - 1988. I don't do many deco dives but its nice to have the training I had. You are going to learn how many liters of air is ins a tank, how many liters you consume per minute and all sorts of things not taught in recreational diving. Will that help make you a better diver? Sure. You will have a better understanding.

PS I Do not consider myself a technical diver. I really started to learn about GF, Surf GF, and other things once I had my Perdix. I was never concerned to really know my SAC rate. I've been able to log how much air in a tank how many liters I used for a dive etc.
Dive planning for deco dives is fun. I don't plan for recreational dives. You will find in DM course the plan often is dont go below a certain depth, be back at 5m around 50 bar or at 60 minutes. Some dive ops you can have unlimited dive times other ops keep dives to around 60 - 65 minutes.

 

[Blackcrusader]

I don't understand how this is ********. Of course you pay for the course, it's a course, doesn't it work like that in every place and every field?
Of course you get duty of care for baby divers isn't that the job?
Most work in life is working for someone else or someone else's company
What are you saying?

Another great spot for diving where you could do a DM course.

PADI Dive Courses | Bongo Bongo Divers

Embark on a journey of learning and exploration with our PADI dive courses. From beginners to pro's, elevate your skills and become a certified diver with us.

www.divebongo.com

 

[Wibble]

...I'm targeting dive schools that also offer tech courses so I can check directly when I'm there.

At least that will mean some divers will have excellent core skills.

The biggest challenge when developing your skills is to know what good looks like. In the case of core skills that isn't flappy leg finning; it's someone with very fine positioning control using only fins to go backwards, turn around, fin backwards and fin sideways all with excellent buoyancy even if doing something else.

 

[DanBMW]

At least in this country:
1) you pay for the DM course (and get your plastic card while learning nothing)
2) you pay for insurance
3) you assume a significant duty of care and liability for baby divers
4) you get paid in "free air" and "shop discounts" for spending YOUR time helping out someone else's business.

It's all bullsheet

I'll politely disagree with most of what you wrote, based on my experience. My course was included in my job as an unpaid volunteer diver in a public aquarium. To take guests diving in the shark tank required a DM certification. The business held the insurance. Classes took about a year and included a lot of different experiences and skills that were intensely critiqued. Of course you have a duty to care for and assist all divers. Good Samaritan law is in effect in most of the US. Pay is not why anyone becomes a DM. My skills did improve, along with my overall appreciation of diving.

 

[ginti]

It makes a look of sense to be honest.
So my plan is to go to Thailand and I'm targeting dive schools that also offer tech courses so I can check directly when I'm there.
The only thing now is to see if I can afford to do both because honestly my main main goal right now is to live that lifestyle for a few months, otherwise i have to go back to "real life" and in not ready for that

If you have time constraints, then just go for the DM course, just understand that most likely you will not improve your skills - you will mainly learn how to handle customers.

Personally, I sincerely disagree with divers becoming DMs before mastering skills - if something serious happens, you need to be able to manage the situation, which could prove hard without solid core skills (those three I mentioned above).

However, you can just identify a good diving school, do a dive to check your actual level, and if the course director is fine you can start your DM course. If the CD is not fine, you may need further training before going for the DM route.

In my opinion, if you can do the following exercise with the level of buoyancy/trim control shown in the videos while maintaining awareness of your team, you should be fine:


Anything less than the video above and you should think twice before becoming a DM. No need for the tec configuration in your case: the wetsuit and single tank should work well. Most likely, you won't even need the long hose, although I personally think it is a good idea for a DM. Also, BP+wing is likely not necessary.

Any good instructor will bring you to this level, from whatever agency.

[NOTE: to make it clear, I only dive long hose and BP+wing, I can only see advantages in this configuration - but you won't die if you use something different and I believe you should choose based on your needs, so giving you an overview of all potential options is just fair]

You probably have a good idea for your next steps at this point (depending on your time/money constraints), except for how to choose a high-quality instructor most likely (don't take it personally: if your dive count is right, you likely don't know enough yet because 50 dives is a very little amount, that's it).

Choosing the right instructor is an entirely different thread -> I suggest you use the function search on the forum, and if you don't find what you need open a new thread.

Feel free to send any of us a PM, we will support you the way we can