Why extra air when solo?

[johndiver999]

A very easy issue to remedy. I know which 2nd stage I'm handling by feeling the end of the hose at the 2nd stage. Each hose has a different feature, size or type of nut at the 2nd stage. The primary has a elbow and a shut off, the octo is straight with a shut off, the pony has is straight without a shutoff. This I can tell by touch, my primary has an orange mouthpiece, the octo is black, the pony is clear silicone if the vis is good enough I can confirm what I feel by sight. Common sense goes a long way.

When it's all said and done I'd rather dive my ID's than tote a pony bottle. Two independent bottles and regs on my back beat a pony hanging up my arm and getting my way.

And why do you do all of that?
Answer: Because you clearly recognize the benefits of being able to effectively differentiate the various hoses/stages. Sounds like a pretty robust solution to the stated (potential) problem.

 

[martincohn]

Sidemount.

100% redundant gas from the tanks to your lips.

 

[AfterDark]

Sidemount.

100% redundant gas from the tanks to your lips.

Back Mounted ID's same, after diving both, BMID's are the best choice for me and have been long before side mount was marketed. I found that the side mount was as annoying as a pony bottle only under both arms. And unless the factory rep that dove with me set them wrong they are optimum.

 

[chillyinCanada]

It's more a matter of not wanting to mess with the extra tank and regulator on a relatively shallow easy dive from which I can make an emergency ascent with no gas.

Just curious as to when you last practiced your CESA from that depth?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I'm not a solo diver. At least not yet. It will be my next certification, but not so I can conduct solo dives per say. More do because I'm a DM that helps with OW courses and if you think about it, anytime I'm diving with students, what are the chances they're going to be able to assist should I suffer a gear malfunction, OOA situation, etc.? Also, my son turns 10 in September and will get his OW shortly thereafter. Again, when it's just he and I diving together, what is the probability that he'll be able to help me during an incident? So I look at solo diving from a little different perspective than most.

Now on to why you dive redundant air supplies. Bottom line.....why dive ANY redundant gear? It's simple. Just In Case. As you can probably tell in my avatar I typically dive a full face mask. Air is integrated so should something go wrong with any part of it, the entire thing fails. So when I dive it I ALWAYS have a regular mask in one BC pocket and a spare 2nd stage fitted w/ a QD in another. Case in point: Last month in Cozumel on a shallow <30 ft dive, the o-ring between the two hemispheres of my omni-swivel failed, free-flowing air into the Caribbean. I had plenty of time to make a normal, controlled ascent and abort my dive. But because I dive redundant gear, rather than have to call my dive, I disconnected my primary hose from the swivel (QD fitting), doffed my ffm, switched to my octo and donned my regular mask. Once I'd calmed down a bit and was breathing normally again, I pulled out my backup 2nd stage and connected it to my primary hose then switched to it and stowed my octo, thus restoring me to "normal" status, meaning should anyone suffer a failure/OOA situation, I could donate to them. Was carrying a backup 2nd stage completely necessary? Maybe not. But it kept me diving normally for another 15 minutes. And more importantly it gave me additional peace of mind so I wasn't worried for the remainder of my dive.

So all in all, I guess it's really what you're comfortable with. But plan for the worst.

If you are diving with OW students and they can't assist you if you have a problem, they should not be in open water. I get so upset when "pros" say they are essentially diving solo on checkouts with students. No, you are not. You are verifying the training of those, who at the end of the weekend, are supposed to be able to dive with a buddy of equal training and experience without any professional assistance. That means assisting that buddy if they have an issue. If you feel that's not within their capabilities you shouldn't give them a card.

 

[MichaelMc]

If you are diving with OW students and they can't assist you if you have a problem, they should not be in open water.

True, OW students should be able to assist, if you swim to one of your 'inattentive buddies'/students for air. If they pass this open water verification step. But what if they lose it in open water, under a real issue instead of a practice one? Yes, if you trained them, don't bring them out until you trust them. If you didn't train them, do you trust who did?

Also Instructors or DMs might be far from students setting floats or overseeing the whole area. With no student/buddy air near by. Conditions that might satisfy an easy CESA but would not satisfy a solo class guideline to have redundant air.

 

[jlcnuke]

I gather that for people taking a solo course, the official equipment standard is to have a pony bottle or some such thing. My question is: why? And it's a serious question, I really don't get it.

My own experience a long time ago when I first certified inland and then went home to the NW coast on break from school and wanted to see the subtidal instead of just the intertidal was that if I wanted to see it, I'd best go when the going was good and that meant going on my own. Off a nice sloping rock shelf into nearly flat water on an unusually clear day, one of the days that are very few and far between there. I don't know where I'd have found a buddy. Since I was around 10 to 20 feet, maybe 30 feet deep tops, I figured that if I got into trouble at 10 to 20 feet, I could blow and go quicker than I could either try to find and get to a buddy if I had one, or fix the problem where I was. Now that I'm getting back into diving regularly, and my favorite place to travel to will be those same remote rocky shores, I thought about formally training in solo, but I'm not enthused about having to buy more big and heavy gear. So, why do I need a pony bottle when diving at 10-30 feet? Specifically, if my regulator fails, I have a second. If that fails too, then that would be sad. But how likely is that in real life? If both of them weren't getting air, that would probably mean my first stage had to have failed (unless, I suppose, I was stupid enough to run out of air). Are first stages prone to failure?

Is the whole logic behind the extra air source that someone might run out of air in their cylinder, or is there some other reason?

The reason is because the course isn't called "solo diving at really shallow depths only", so when you're at 100 ft and find your free-flow results in insufficient air in your primary tank for you to go to the surface calmly and do a nice safety stop, that redundant air supply means you can still do all that stuff. Do you need it at 30 ft? That's up to you to determine the risks your willing to accept. Do you need it at 130 ft? You very well might if you would like to avoid high risk ascents if you have an issue.

Personally, I dive with my pony bottle anytime I do a solo dive or if I'm diving with someone I don't know. I also wear my full normal setup (long hose with necklaced backup) as I'll frequently do solo and buddy diving on the same day, and sometimes don't carry the pony on some of those dives. As a result, keeping most of my rig "standardized" for all my dives retains the familiarity and I'm only adding one piece of gear (my pony bottle) for any given dive usually.

 

[caruso]

Just curious as to when you last practiced your CESA from that depth?

Probably never.

 

[MichaelMc]

Probably never.

Amateurs Practice Until They Get It Right;
Professionals Practice Until They Can’t Get It Wrong

What if you never practice?

I'm not a pro, but I practice switching air sources every dive, as I dive sidemount or independent doubles. Not under unexpected OOA stress, but most CESA practice is not under unexpected OOA stress. When I have a good buddy, I tell them that they will go OOA some time during the dive, which means I need to quickly deploy my long hose to save them.

 

[AfterDark]

The reason is because the course isn't called "solo diving at really shallow depths only", so when you're at 100 ft and find your free-flow results in insufficient air in your primary tank for you to go to the surface calmly and do a nice safety stop, that redundant air supply means you can still do all that stuff. Do you need it at 30 ft? That's up to you to determine the risks your willing to accept. Do you need it at 130 ft? You very well might if you would like to avoid high risk ascents if you have an issue.

Personally, I dive with my pony bottle anytime I do a solo dive or if I'm diving with someone I don't know. I also wear my full normal setup (long hose with necklaced backup) as I'll frequently do solo and buddy diving on the same day, and sometimes don't carry the pony on some of those dives. As a result, keeping most of my rig "standardized" for all my dives retains the familiarity and I'm only adding one piece of gear (my pony bottle) for any given dive usually.

That is exactly my attitude towards dive gear personal standardization. I know where my gear is, what it is and how to access it by touch/feel. My gear is the same no matter if I'm doing a 30' sightseeing dive or diving the U853. The suit may change to match the conditions, I may have 1 tank and pony or 2 tanks in the form of IDs but the basic configuration is always the same.

Sometimes when I feeling like playing I'll gear up vintage style, sans BC, SPG, using my double hose and J valve and swim around in 10' of water trying to take an acceptable picture of some critter. I don't really call that diving and I don't log those as dives.

Practicing CESA, I used to practice CESA all the time, every dive. Before we did safety stops I would always do the last 25- 30' of an ascent as CESA; got so I could do it without thinking.

On one dive using a borrowed reg that my buddy at the time "rebuilt" I had a failure to deliver air at 70' after I had exhaled. My "reg rebuilding buddy" was nowhere to be found. So up I went so scared I could barely think. I remember at 35FSW (a guess) I felt the need to exhale so I did the rest of the way to the surface. I swam to shore and waited for my buddy. I had a few things I wanted to say to him. Among which was if I ever see you near me underwater again I'll kill you.