Why donate my Primary?

[Michael Schlink]

Although, the AAS and the long hose certainly was born from cavers, donating the primary was not always the only method, in fact when I did my cave training there were quite a few, with a long hose on the AAS and the hose buungeed?, to the tank or manifold.
Years ago when SP brought out their Air2 it started a debate on how to handle a OOA. At that time although AAS's were common, less so was how we all carried it and how it was deployed.
There was a study done, I can't remember where or by who, in a pool if I remember correctly. The study group tried numerous AAS's and config's. The one thing that came out of the study was that the FASTEST way to deploy a reg was to take the one out of your mouth.
The bungeed 2nd under your chin was a great idea, but came after donating your primary was thought to be the prefered method.
The things being posted about that "you know that the reg is working" is based on the fact that if a diver is diving dbls then there is a possibility that a left post roll off would shut the valve to the reg AND if you weren't breathing that reg the reg could be shut off without you knowing it, then in an OOA if you handed this reg to an OOA diver you could be handing them a dead reg.

 

[Fred R.]

If you are an open water recreational diver, you should learn and practice sharing with your Alternate Air Source, which should be a full second stage regulator. If you are thinking of dive master, you should get the AAS on a longer hose, 40”, and route the second regulator so that the hose enters the first stage from the opposite side of your primary.

An Open Water Diver should NEVER donate the primary as first choice.

An Out of Air Diver will rarely go for the mouthpiece in the mouth, they will go for the closest and most available air source. By putting your alternate on a 40” hose and routing the hose from the ‘other’ side, you can pass the alternate off long before the possibly panicked diver can reach you or your gear.

Leave the long hose, primary passing to the troglodytes who developed it. They developed their system to meet a very specific need, practice against that need and supposedly dive with teams of divers that are never susceptible to panic.

I’ve posted more on this in the past, and this subject is a full chapter in my upcoming book, so I am not going to elaborate on this much more, because it is time for me to go diving.

 

[kallardnyc]

 

[costi]

Comment about a certtain reg being to hot is in reference to a tech configuration where the donor is carrying multiple tanks with multiple mixes. The OOA diver might not (although he defintely should) know which is which. The reg in the donors mouth is known to be the right one at this depth, and the donor had damned well better know which of his other regs he can safely switch to.

Got it, thanks

 

[costi]

If you are an open water recreational diver, you should learn and practice sharing with your Alternate Air Source, which should be a full second stage regulator. If you are thinking of dive master, you should get the AAS on a longer hose, 40”, and route the second regulator so that the hose enters the first stage from the opposite side of your primary.

An Open Water Diver should NEVER donate the primary as first choice.

An Out of Air Diver will rarely go for the mouthpiece in the mouth, they will go for the closest and most available air source. By putting your alternate on a 40” hose and routing the hose from the ‘other’ side, you can pass the alternate off long before the possibly panicked diver can reach you or your gear.

Leave the long hose, primary passing to the troglodytes who developed it. They developed their system to meet a very specific need, practice against that need and supposedly dive with teams of divers that are never susceptible to panic.

I’ve posted more on this in the past, and this subject is a full chapter in my upcoming book, so I am not going to elaborate on this much more, because it is time for me to go diving.

I was origionally certified through PDIC. They set up their rigs with the secondary opposite the primary. If I'm not mistaking, their explanation was they thought it reduced the possible event of entanglement. It didn't seem consistent with some of the other divers I became associated with so when I got Naui certified, I changed over to both on the same side for consistancy.
Bob

 

[san diego diver]

my octo breathes in the upside-down position and is yellow. i keep it in a octo ball which is easily reachable to either person in an out of air situation. my primary reg WILL NOT WORK UPSIDE DOWN !! in an emergency this could be handed to the poor ooa buddy upside down if they are not in the right position. !!!

 

[NadMat]

If you are an open water recreational diver, you should learn and practice sharing with your Alternate Air Source, which should be a full second stage regulator. If you are thinking of dive master, you should get the AAS on a longer hose, 40”, and route the second regulator so that the hose enters the first stage from the opposite side of your primary.

An Open Water Diver should NEVER donate the primary as first choice.

An Out of Air Diver will rarely go for the mouthpiece in the mouth, they will go for the closest and most available air source. By putting your alternate on a 40” hose and routing the hose from the ‘other’ side, you can pass the alternate off long before the possibly panicked diver can reach you or your gear.

Leave the long hose, primary passing to the troglodytes who developed it. They developed their system to meet a very specific need, practice against that need and supposedly dive with teams of divers that are never susceptible to panic.

I’ve posted more on this in the past, and this subject is a full chapter in my upcoming book, so I am not going to elaborate on this much more, because it is time for me to go diving.

You are welcome to dive any way you want, Fred, but I will hand over my primary on a long hose( but not 7' long) rather than give OOA diver control of my bouyancy by handing them my BC integrated secondary.

IMAO, the only 'right' way to share air is the one you discussed with buddy during dive plan.

 

[MikeFerrara]

If you are an open water recreational diver, you should learn and practice sharing with your Alternate Air Source, which should be a full second stage regulator. If you are thinking of dive master, you should get the AAS on a longer hose, 40”, and route the second regulator so that the hose enters the first stage from the opposite side of your primary.

An Open Water Diver should NEVER donate the primary as first choice.

An Out of Air Diver will rarely go for the mouthpiece in the mouth, they will go for the closest and most available air source. By putting your alternate on a 40” hose and routing the hose from the ‘other’ side, you can pass the alternate off long before the possibly panicked diver can reach you or your gear.

Leave the long hose, primary passing to the troglodytes who developed it. They developed their system to meet a very specific need, practice against that need and supposedly dive with teams of divers that are never susceptible to panic.

That specific purpose is to quickly and efficiently get breathing gas to a diver who doesn't have any and it works real well too.

I don't know any troglodytes who suppose thet either they or those they dive with are imune to panic. On the contrary they recognise that panic is always a danger and the best way to prevent an OOA diver from panicing is to get him air from a reliable source quickly.

I’ve posted more on this in the past, and this subject is a full chapter in my upcoming book, so I am not going to elaborate on this much more, because it is time for me to go diving.

I read you other post on the subject and disagree with that post and this post.

You seem to base you assumptions on the visability of the reg attracting the OOA diver...color and location? Can we depend on color or even having any visability at all? Maybe where you dive but not everyplace. What about location and visability? An alternate pinned to the so-called golded triangle someplace isn't very visable if both divers are horizontal as they ought to be for efficient swimming and position control.

Further, in pratice, many of the clips used for the purpose just don't hold the reg reliably. They either let the reg fall out or it can be difficult or combersome to get the reg out. Every one puts them in a different place and many end up with them just dragging and its any ones guess where it is and even whether or not it still works. Additionally the loop made by that 40 inch hose on its way to the golden triangle is an unsightly, drag inducing, snag catching mess...surpassed only by the way too long HP hoses that divers somehow feel compelled to hang consols big enough to use for boat paddles on.

So...back to the specific purposes of the troglodytes, I'd add that a Hogarthian like configuration cleans up that mess of hose loops and danglies. The result is a far more streamlined configuration with everything placed functionally and securely that works every bit as well in OW as it does in a cave or wreck.

I'll stick to passing my primary and keeping my backup safely and conveniently tucked right under my chin.

 

[MikeFerrara]

my octo breathes in the upside-down position and is yellow. i keep it in a octo ball which is easily reachable to either person in an out of air situation. my primary reg WILL NOT WORK UPSIDE DOWN !! in an emergency this could be handed to the poor ooa buddy upside down if they are not in the right position. !!!

Why won't your primary work upside down? True a reg with a large exhaust T may be hard to get in your mouth....so you turn it around. Some regs might let you get a little water if they're upside down but being underwater we should be ready for a little water once in a while and the purge button efficiently provides a way to get air until the reg can be flipped over or otherwise cleared of water.

If the diver is taking the reg from your mouth, they should get it right side up. If you are handing it to them, proper handing-off prevents them from getting it upside down. Hold the reg by the hose (to expose the purge) with the mouthpiece facing them and pointing down somewhat. Pointing the pouthpiece down prevents the reg from free flowing (which some can do with the mouthpiece pointing up) and avoids giving the OOA diver a face full of bubbles when what they want is something to breath.

 

[ckharlan66]

The things being posted about that "you know that the reg is working" is based on the fact that if a diver is diving dbls then there is a possibility that a left post roll off would shut the valve to the reg AND if you weren't breathing that reg the reg could be shut off without you knowing it, then in an OOA if you handed this reg to an OOA diver you could be handing them a dead reg.

I agree that is one place it came from but in OW on single tanks it also comes from the number of divers I have seen with Octos that have come detached from the diver during the dive and are being drug through the sand.

Chad