Why donate my Primary?

[Cave Diver]

...this blowing bubbles while searching nonsense...first get something to breath and then sort out your other equipment issues. If I lose a reg it'll be hanging off my right shoulder since it's on a wrapped 7 ft hose but if not my backup is right under my chin where I can even get it in my mouth with no hands if I need to. If my buddy drops a reg and doesn't have the common sense to switch to a backup my primary will be presented for their breathing convenience. Again, if every one is breathing we have plenty of time to see to whatever else might be going on and troubles rarely come one at a time.

I'll second that. There have been several times that for whatever reason I've switched to a bungied backup sans hands.

 

[Michael Schlink]

One thing that this thread has turned in to is the long hose /AAS bungee config. debate What's not being said is that regardless of how you're configuring your gear, it's just about inarguable that the primary (the one in your mouth) is the FASTEST reg to hand to someone-regardless of where the AAS is located.
We can debate length of hose and where you keep the AAS but what's not going to change is that the one in the mouth is the one that can be deployed the fastest.
Those that think someone whose out of air is going to move in front of you and signal-well your nuts, doesn't happen that way. Somebody do a poll. I'll bet that in most cases of OOA there was a little panic going on and somebody grabbed for a reg.
Keeping a AAS in the "triangle" and making it a bright color is better than hiding it in a BC pocket, letting it dangle or having it layed up next to the tank. BUt Mike F's got a good point that when divers are horizontal the reg is no longer visible, but then not that many divers are horizontal anyway.
So we have 2 issues the way I see it- 1) is how you config. your kit 2) Which reg are you planning and expecting to hand off.
Long hose or not the primary is the one that's best handed off.

 

[Adobo]

Titled: Bovine Fertilizer Alert!!!

If you are an open water recreational diver, you should learn and practice sharing with your Alternate Air Source, which should be a full second stage regulator. If you are thinking of dive master, you should get the AAS on a longer hose, 40”, and route the second regulator so that the hose enters the first stage from the opposite side of your primary.

An Open Water Diver should NEVER donate the primary as first choice.

An Out of Air Diver will rarely go for the mouthpiece in the mouth, they will go for the closest and most available air source. By putting your alternate on a 40” hose and routing the hose from the ‘other’ side, you can pass the alternate off long before the possibly panicked diver can reach you or your gear.

Leave the long hose, primary passing to the troglodytes who developed it. They developed their system to meet a very specific need, practice against that need and supposedly dive with teams of divers that are never susceptible to panic.

I’ve posted more on this in the past, and this subject is a full chapter in my upcoming book, so I am not going to elaborate on this much more, because it is time for me to go diving.

Thanks for the heads up, Fred. It's not often people warn you about the nonsense that they are about to type up.

 

[RICoder]

I'm not going to single anyone out, but there are a few posts in this thread that smack of exactly what I DON'T like about DIR types. Specifically the idea that you can have a perfect configuration or a perform [insert skill/even here] if you have said perfect config. Its not going to happen. In fact it reminds me of an old expression that used to come up every time someone tried to say that their field gear was configured the "only proper way"...Adapt, Improvise, Overcome.

I'm no SCUBA god, but I've been diving for several years, and I'm on my way towards Instructor (I'm taking the long route). About 10 dives after getting rescue I ended up with the first of 2 rescues I've been involved in. Granted they were completely MINOR in every way, but neither one was anything like the class. Yeah, the situation was familiar, but the gear was different, the people were different, the conditions were different, the context was different. There is just no way that you can be 100% prepared for any situation that you come across, the best you can do is to know your gear and use your brain to solve any problem you come across.

DIR may be as wonderful for those that use it as they say it is, but to come into a discussion where a fairly new diver wants to know the logic behind primary donation and preach the wonders of the neck bungie is inapropriate IMO. (I'd say IMHO, but there is nothign H about my O).

 

[Adobo]

I'm not going to single anyone out, but there are a few posts in this thread that smack of exactly what I DON'T like about DIR types. Specifically the idea that you can have a perfect configuration or a perform [insert skill/even here] if you have said perfect config. Its not going to happen. In fact it reminds me of an old expression that used to come up every time someone tried to say that their field gear was configured the "only proper way"...Adapt, Improvise, Overcome.

I'm no SCUBA god, but I've been diving for several years, and I'm on my way towards Instructor (I'm taking the long route). About 10 dives after getting rescue I ended up with the first of 2 rescues I've been involved in. Granted they were completely MINOR in every way, but neither one was anything like the class. Yeah, the situation was familiar, but the gear was different, the people were different, the conditions were different, the context was different. There is just no way that you can be 100% prepared for any situation that you come across, the best you can do is to know your gear and use your brain to solve any problem you come across.

DIR may be as wonderful for those that use it as they say it is, but to come into a discussion where a fairly new diver wants to know the logic behind primary donation and preach the wonders of the neck bungie is inapropriate IMO. (I'd say IMHO, but there is nothign H about my O).

I'm confused. Are neck bungies used exclusively by DIR divers?

And why is it inappopriate to discuss the virtues of any gear configuration or is it just the neck bungie thing that should be off limits? What exactly is so objectionable about it?

Newbie here so be kind enough to share some of your knowledge.

 

[RICoder]

I'm confused. Are neck bungies used exclusively by DIR divers?

And why is it inappopriate to discuss the virtues of any gear configuration or is it just the neck bungie thing that should be off limits? What exactly is so objectionable about it?

Newbie here so be kind enough to share some of your knowledge.

Please understand that I am not trying to tell you or any other new diver what methodology you should follow (outside of the obvious safety things). My point was simply that injecting DIR-type philosophy into a conversation that is not about that is kinda like someone trying to convert you to a new religion when you ask for directions to the corner store.

The neck bungie may work well for you, and if you are interested in such things you should certainly check out the threads in that area of the board and get all the info you can on the subject.

The question was about giving up the primary in an OOA situation, and MY response still stands, that in my oppinion (and apparently many other people's oppinions) it is the preferred thing to do. The reasons seem to be varied, and I think well posted.

...also, I don't know that the neck bungie thing is specific to DIR, I just got a wiff of it in those posts.

 

[Rick Inman]

...also, I don't know that the neck bungie thing is specific to DIR,...

Yes, I gathered that. The " neck bungie thing" is not specific to DIR, but is the standard way technical divers secure their backup regulator. Many people prefer this method, so I am curious as to why you wish this one particular system to not be discussed.

 

[Adobo]

Please understand that I am not trying to tell you or any other new diver what methodology you should follow (outside of the obvious safety things). My point was simply that injecting DIR-type philosophy into a conversation that is not about that is kinda like someone trying to convert you to a new religion when you ask for directions to the corner store.

The neck bungie may work well for you, and if you are interested in such things you should certainly check out the threads in that area of the board and get all the info you can on the subject.

The question was about giving up the primary in an OOA situation, and MY response still stands, that in my oppinion (and apparently many other people's oppinions) it is the preferred thing to do. The reasons seem to be varied, and I think well posted.

...also, I don't know that the neck bungie thing is specific to DIR, I just got a wiff of it in those posts.

So why not just ask people to stay on topic as opposed to beating up on DIR people?

You don't even really know for sure it was a DIR person who raised the virtues of the neck bungy. And besides, in this particular case, the DIR folks would agree with you. Donate the primary.

 

[RICoder]

ACK! I'm not saying not to discuss it. I'm just saying that its probably not the best thing to throw at a self-proclaimed newbie who only wants to know why he should give up his primary in an OOA situation.

I hang with people who are tech's, and I think its all very good for them, it just makes me tense when techs and DIRs try to convert the newbies before they are ready or even know if that way of doing things is right for them. Tell me you've never been in an LDS where some new diver asks what BC to buy and a tech chimes in with "back plate and wings." It's a great system, with many benifits, but thats not the question, now is it?

I was TRYING to do my part to keep the thread from being hijacked into a DIR discussion and answer the OP's question...guess I failed

And as to "beating up" on the DIR-types, I'm not...the worst I said was that saying any task could be performed perfectly 100% of the time was (at best) hyperbole.

 

[Adobo]

You brought up DIR and attributed some behavior you didn't like to "DIR types". And really, you still don't know who is DIR and who is not.

I spend plenty of time in dive shops. I have never ever heard anybody tell a newb to get a BP instead of a standard BC. Worse yet, there is a halcyon dealer down the street from me where one of the employees.. oh, never mind.

And honestly, I find it curious that you think the notion of discussion different secondary gas sources is such a complex topic for someone asking a question about why they would donate their primary. I hope you find it just as complex to talk about "octos" and "AIR 2s".

P.S. What is a DIR diver anyway?

ACK! I'm not saying not to discuss it. I'm just saying that its probably not the best thing to throw at a self-proclaimed newbie who only wants to know why he should give up his primary in an OOA situation.

I hang with people who are tech's, and I think its all very good for them, it just makes me tense when techs and DIRs try to convert the newbies before they are ready or even know if that way of doing things is right for them. Tell me you've never been in an LDS where some new diver asks what BC to buy and a tech chimes in with "back plate and wings." It's a great system, with many benifits, but thats not the question, now is it?

I was TRYING to do my part to keep the thread from being hijacked into a DIR discussion and answer the OP's question...guess I failed

And as to "beating up" on the DIR-types, I'm not...the worst I said was that saying any task could be performed perfectly 100% of the time was (at best) hyperbole.