Why does sidemount diving takes so long?

[bittdiver]

[emoji106]🏼


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[Mermaid2]

How long is too long? What's the rush? Is the terrorist going to get away if I take a few extra minutes to make sure everything is correctly configured and operating as intended? I've dived with others using a single tank and jacket bc that gave me enough time for a nap and good dump before they were ready to get in the water.

Your are lucky. I have tried several times that people just started the dive, and did not wait for me to gear up. I could meet with them in the water (perhaps). And after that they did not understand why I did not want to dive with them anymore.

 

[kr2y5]

When gearing up why are sidemount divers so slow? I though after you gain some experience it would not take that long?

As far as I can tell, that's because many sidemount divers seem to be constantly tinkering with something. Where a standard backmounted setup is like a well-fitted sock that you just roll up and go, sidemount leaves things somewhat underspecified.

 

[DevonDiver]

As far as I can tell, that's because many sidemount divers seem to be constantly tinkering with something. Where a standard backmounted setup is like a well-fitted sock that you just roll up and go, sidemount leaves things somewhat underspecified.

The tinkering should happen at home. That's not part of 'set-up'.... and nor is it wise to tinker with your kit just before diving.

What I think you might be referring to is sidemount divers who didn't get expert instruction and decided to teach themselves (even if after a very short, vague sidemount course). So what they are doing is a very lengthy phase of adjustment and configuration. Something that could have been resolved perfectly in a half-day with an expert....

Still... that's bad diving... inconsiderate. You can do the tinkering after the dive.... not before splashing.

 

[kr2y5]

The tinkering should happen at home. That's not part of 'set-up'.... and nor is it wise to tinker with your kit just before diving.

Still... that's bad diving... inconsiderate. You can do the tinkering after the dive.... not before splashing.

I could not agree more... my point, however (or should I say, my hypothesis, as due to my inexperience I'm hardly in a position to make any points) was simply that, fluency probably takes longer to build when someone is tinkering with their equipment, regardless of whether it happens at home, or whenever. At least that seems to be a message that I'm hearing here very often. Is that true?

I had the impression that sidemount divers tend to tinker with equipment more, not necessarily because we have to, but perhaps simply because it allows more degrees of freedom, and we feel like to exercise that freedom. Anyway, my impression from posts on this forum was, that sidemount seems to often attract a certain personality type, a kind of person who enjoys variety, has a DIY mindset, etc., whereas folks, who just want to adopt what's tested and proven, and to only ever do what's absolutely necessary to get the job done and never change a thing, rather tend to gravitate towards DIR or some such. Am I wrong in assuming so?

What I think you might be referring to is sidemount divers who didn't get expert instruction and decided to teach themselves (even if after a very short, vague sidemount course). So what they are doing is a very lengthy phase of adjustment and configuration. Something that could have been resolved perfectly in a half-day with an expert....

Sometimes, it's about chasing the rabbit...

 

[BeijaFlor]

I'm doing recreational diving, so I'm comparing myself with the single-tank back-mount divers on the boat ... many of whom are "vacation divers," as I am, with different levels of experience and familiarity with their rented rigs.

I've got twice as many tanks to rig and mount on my harness. OTOH, the "rigging" consists of mounting the stage-straps and then mounting the regulators ... and then clipping on the tanks while the other guys are struggling to put on their BCDs. I can even go in with one tank and have the crew-mate hand down the other tank when I'm in the water, but I don't prefer it ... I'd rather go in with both tanks, so all he needs to hand me is my camera.

 

[DevonDiver]

I'm doing recreational diving, so I'm comparing myself with the single-tank back-mount divers on the boat ... many of whom are "vacation divers," as I am, with different levels of experience and familiarity with their rented rigs.

I've got twice as many tanks to rig and mount on my harness. OTOH, the "rigging" consists of mounting the stage-straps and then mounting the regulators ... and then clipping on the tanks while the other guys are struggling to put on their BCDs. I can even go in with one tank and have the crew-mate hand down the other tank when I'm in the water, but I don't prefer it ... I'd rather go in with both tanks, so all he needs to hand be is my camera.

For a typical 2-dive trip.... set-up the cylinders in the dive center before departure (when everyone else is drinking coffee and chewing the cud). Once on the boat, there's nothing to set-up. 2 dives....2 tanks. Splash for your 2nd dive with the same cylinders.

Once the boat master gives the OK to splash, be the first in the water. Anticipate this - as a sidemount diver, you can be in your BCD and waiting well in advance. Have your cylinders pre-positioned at the exit, so it's easy for the boat staff to pass them down. You can jump with the primary/left cylinder hand-held, then don it properly after. Don your cylinders in the water whenever possible (the vast majority of the time). You'll be waiting for everyone else.

One advantage of sidemount IS that you can get set-up and prepared well in advance. If you don cylinders in-water, you're out of everyone's way very early. With practice, proper training and good equipment configuration, donning cylinders in the water takes seconds....literally.

From my observations, tardy dive preparation on sidemount stems entirely from human, not equipment, factors. Weak training, inexperience, lack of practice and too little foresight and anticipation are the culprits.

 

[tbone1004]

so I agree and completely disagree with Andy.

Saturday I was diving with @victorzamora and it took us well over an hour to get in the water. 2 primaries, 2 stages, deco, dpv. Primary bottles were getting adjusted *they had been borrowed and the person that borrowed them uses different rigging than I do*, stages were getting adjusted, dpv's were rigged. Unfortunately because we were experimenting with different stage rigging this has to be done at the site and during the day. No amount of proper sidemount instruction could have shortened this time. That day was about tweaking gear and optimizing. Proper sidemount instruction should, in half a day or less, get you looking like your instructor. Which should be good, and is good enough, but it may not be ideal and there is lots of room for improvement, so I'll disagree on the principal that not everything can be solved in half a day with a good instructor. You should have a solid baseline, but that doesn't guarantee that you are done fiddling with your rig, or that that setup will work if you change to a different type of harness, tanks, etc etc. This does not occur in backmount because your tanks are fixed, the band height is fixed, your harness is fixed, regulators are fixed and the only variable that you can change is which hole the wing and plate go into the bolts if you have that option on your gear. This takes 30 seconds and requires pretty little thought. For stage rigging, the DIR guys have figured it out, and it works quite well and there just isn't that much fiddling that goes on with it.

The above fiddling was in preparation for a trip to cave country in 2 weeks where the next bit applies

What I will agree with though is his point about entry. IF you have everything squared away before you get there, which we do now because of the fiddling on Saturday, then getting in the water should only take more time than the backmount guys if they have their rig fully set up and they just unscrew the primary regulator for fills and are good to go. That is one advantage of backmount at least in non-boat diving where you can leave the doubles set up at all times. You should only be a minute or two behind them though if they have everything set up. On a boat though, especially in single tank sidemount, you should always be the first in the water. Have your bottle ready to go, rig ready to go and orally inflated to full, and as soon as the gate is open, you clip the neck leash off *I'm a fan of them, not sure if Andy uses them*, and jump in. Clip the bottom in, and you can finish everything else while you're waiting for everyone else, or if you are able to descend, I finish everything else on my descent. I'll do a quick regulator check, plug the LPI in, and then the rigging and hose routing gets finished on descent to save time. No reason you should ever be waiting on a sidemount vs backmount diver if everything is equal * number of tanks, and degree of setup at the start*

 

[BeijaFlor]

One advantage of sidemount IS that you can get set-up and prepared well in advance. If you don cylinders in-water, you're out of everyone's way very early. With practice, proper training and good equipment configuration, donning cylinders in the water takes seconds....literally.

From my observations, tardy dive preparation on sidemount stems entirely from human, not equipment, factors. Weak training, inexperience, lack of practice and too little foresight and anticipation are the culprits.

My biggest "culprits" are probably inexperience and lack of practice; I only dive when I'm on vacation in the tropics, and I only have so much money for those trips. I make up for it by getting my gear ready well beforehand, and "final assembly" is quick . I'm slower getting out of the water, what with handing up tanks and my camera, but I'm willing to wait to be the last one up the ladder.

Setting up a new rig, or dealing with a major change in your rig, is not something you'd want to do on a dive boat. I know that when I get my new BCD, I'm going to need a couple of pool and/or quarry sessions to get it adjusted right and to get used to it.

 

[DevonDiver]

...it took us well over an hour to get in the water.... 2 primaries, 2 stages, deco, dpv...

This illustrates that technical diving takes longer preparation than recreational diving.

...Primary bottles were getting adjusted *they had been borrowed and the person that borrowed them uses different rigging than I do*,.... we were experimenting with different stage rigging...No amount of proper sidemount instruction could have shortened this time. That day was about tweaking gear and optimizing.

Your diving that day had a specific goal. I'd suggest that goal would be compatible with polite/considerate behavior on a dive boat full of recreational fun divers. It would be more compatible on a tech-trip or private boat, or as shore diving outside of the group/charter environment.

Again, this doesn't disprove that proper sidemount instruction; coupled with foresight and timely preparation, eliminates the 'myth' that sidemount water entry/exit is inherently slow on a dive boat. It merely reinforces that sidemount and/or technical divers need to be considerate in their activities on mixed-purpose dive trips.

... I'll disagree on the principal that not everything can be solved in half a day with a good instructor. You should have a solid baseline, but that doesn't guarantee that you are done fiddling with your rig, or that that setup will work if you change to a different type of harness, tanks, etc etc

I don't dispute this, although only a small proportion of 'serious' sidemount divers have a significant interest in constantly fiddling, tweaking, refining and changing their rigs over time. This is especially true of recreational-only sidemount divers.

However, as @BeijFlor mentions, there is a time and place for configuration work. I'd simply suggest that immediately pre-dive on a busy recreational charter boat was neither the time, nor the place.

This does not occur in backmount because your tanks are fixed, the band height is fixed, your harness is fixed, regulators are fixed and the only variable that you can change is which hole the wing and plate go into the bolts if you have that option on your gear. This takes 30 seconds and requires pretty little thought. For stage rigging, the DIR guys have figured it out, and it works quite well and there just isn't that much fiddling that goes on with it.

Which is odd... because there's a plethora of backmount divers who spend years.... decades.... refining rigs.

In short... fiddlers will fiddle.

It doesn't matter if they're back-mount, sidemount or CCR.... some divers enjoy refining and experimenting with their kit.

What does matter is if their tinkering amounts to inconsiderate behavior on a dive boat.

backmount guys...have their rig fully set up and they just unscrew the primary regulator for fills and are good to go. That is one advantage of backmount....

That's a non-point. Sidemount divers can also unscrew regulators, get fills overnight, and be good to go in the morning. That's how I dive...

clip the neck leash off *I'm a fan of them, not sure if Andy uses them*,

Most of my diving is from small boats.... speedboats or local Filipino 'banka' boats. It's usually far easier to enter the water without tanks. That said, I always use 550 cord chokers on my cylinder necks. If/when I need a hard-point attachment, I temporarily connect via double-enders that I always carry. Sometimes that's for water entry/exit with cylinders in place. The rest of the time it's merely a contingency for bungee failure in-water.

I do also have a personal protocol for water entry/exit in inclement surface conditions from small boats. I will enter with only the left-primary rigged. Other cylinders are lowered to me - they're all connected on a technical leash (as you'd use to trail depleted cylinders on a trimix dive. I clip off the leash to my rear D-ring.... descend from the surface using only the left-primary. At around 5m (bubble check/s-drill depth), I'd remove the other cylinders from the leash and don them properly. Time on the surface is measured in seconds.