Sidemount basics? Just some simple questions
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I don’t see an issue perse; might be the exact stainless alloy mix, but most probably the difference is scuba brand tax
Don’t use the fabric tethered Dring tho listed below, your tanks fill be so far away from your body you’d be the embodiment of the widemount meme
Don’t use the fabric tethered Dring tho listed below, your tanks fill be so far away from your body you’d be the embodiment of the widemount meme
Six Feet Under
Contributor
I have two types of sidemount rigs, an XDeep Stealth Tec and a homemade Mexican-style sidemount rig that a buddy and I cooked up a few years back that I've finally gotten close to perfection.
The XDeep is what I use for cave diving with steel cylinders, either in a wetsuit or drysuit. I'd probably also dive it for larger ocean dives off a boat (the first attempt I made at doing so was in 6-8 foot seas, and it was the only harness I had with me - won't ever do that again as it was a real motherf**ker, to be honest).
The Mexican-style rig is primarily for AL80s, although I have used it with AL40s before, while wearing a wetsuit. I can dive with one or two cylinders (just need to distribute lead weight properly if I'm using it as ballast and not just to be negatively buoyant), and it makes a fantastic setup for diving off of friends' boats, my kayak, or just if you want to feel unencumbered in the water.
Each cylinder has its' own first & second stage regs, as others have said. I've had a second stage fail while cave diving, by causing me to inhale progressively more and more water over a few breaths (and as the adage goes, it'll always happen at turn pressure when you are at your maximum linear penetration into the cave... which is exactly where it did it). I just switched over to the other one and turned the dive, then attempted to diagnose the problem on the swim back to open water.
As for breathing them down equally... I prefer to swap every 300-500psi, or before & after managing certain tasks during the course of a dive. Once you've dove the same setup with no tweaks made to it for a few dozen dives, I've found you'll know when to switch based off the subtle balance change from left to right as one side becomes lighter than the other. Usually happens around 500psi.
The preference for switching "early" around the 300psi mark, instead of 500-1000psi, is to keep as much gas in each cylinder for as long as possible. Murphy's Law guarantees the cylinder I just breathed down 1000psi lower than the other, is the one I'll be stuck breathing out of til I surface.
Plus, the horizontal changes from L to R in your trim are much less noticeable and you'll expend less effort trying to stay "level" by switching early & often.
The #1 tip I can give if you're going to get into sidemount is to find a competent, well-regarded instructor who dives the same harness system you own and prioritizes in-water time.
Pay the money for quality training. I've taken classes that were filled with tips, tricks, and personal experiences from the instructor, and classes where I paid the money and the skill checks were literally just a list we went down to check off, because "you've been doing this a while so you should be familiar with everything." While I already had some prior experience doing all the activities conducted in those classes, you can guess which experience I walked away from feeling like I learned something new and useful...
The XDeep is what I use for cave diving with steel cylinders, either in a wetsuit or drysuit. I'd probably also dive it for larger ocean dives off a boat (the first attempt I made at doing so was in 6-8 foot seas, and it was the only harness I had with me - won't ever do that again as it was a real motherf**ker, to be honest).
The Mexican-style rig is primarily for AL80s, although I have used it with AL40s before, while wearing a wetsuit. I can dive with one or two cylinders (just need to distribute lead weight properly if I'm using it as ballast and not just to be negatively buoyant), and it makes a fantastic setup for diving off of friends' boats, my kayak, or just if you want to feel unencumbered in the water.
Each cylinder has its' own first & second stage regs, as others have said. I've had a second stage fail while cave diving, by causing me to inhale progressively more and more water over a few breaths (and as the adage goes, it'll always happen at turn pressure when you are at your maximum linear penetration into the cave... which is exactly where it did it). I just switched over to the other one and turned the dive, then attempted to diagnose the problem on the swim back to open water.
As for breathing them down equally... I prefer to swap every 300-500psi, or before & after managing certain tasks during the course of a dive. Once you've dove the same setup with no tweaks made to it for a few dozen dives, I've found you'll know when to switch based off the subtle balance change from left to right as one side becomes lighter than the other. Usually happens around 500psi.
The preference for switching "early" around the 300psi mark, instead of 500-1000psi, is to keep as much gas in each cylinder for as long as possible. Murphy's Law guarantees the cylinder I just breathed down 1000psi lower than the other, is the one I'll be stuck breathing out of til I surface.
Plus, the horizontal changes from L to R in your trim are much less noticeable and you'll expend less effort trying to stay "level" by switching early & often.The #1 tip I can give if you're going to get into sidemount is to find a competent, well-regarded instructor who dives the same harness system you own and prioritizes in-water time.
Pay the money for quality training. I've taken classes that were filled with tips, tricks, and personal experiences from the instructor, and classes where I paid the money and the skill checks were literally just a list we went down to check off, because "you've been doing this a while so you should be familiar with everything." While I already had some prior experience doing all the activities conducted in those classes, you can guess which experience I walked away from feeling like I learned something new and useful...
yes the one without the fabric.
see during my training two days ago my instructor also told me to do 300 psi reg switch. Afterwards i was thinking do it at 500 psi is the difference that much noticeable?I have two types of sidemount rigs, an XDeep Stealth Tec and a homemade Mexican-style sidemount rig that a buddy and I cooked up a few years back that I've finally gotten close to perfection.
The XDeep is what I use for cave diving with steel cylinders, either in a wetsuit or drysuit. I'd probably also dive it for larger ocean dives off a boat (the first attempt I made at doing so was in 6-8 foot seas, and it was the only harness I had with me - won't ever do that again as it was a real motherf**ker, to be honest).
The Mexican-style rig is primarily for AL80s, although I have used it with AL40s before, while wearing a wetsuit. I can dive with one or two cylinders (just need to distribute lead weight properly if I'm using it as ballast and not just to be negatively buoyant), and it makes a fantastic setup for diving off of friends' boats, my kayak, or just if you want to feel unencumbered in the water.
Each cylinder has its' own first & second stage regs, as others have said. I've had a second stage fail while cave diving, by causing me to inhale progressively more and more water over a few breaths (and as the adage goes, it'll always happen at turn pressure when you are at your maximum linear penetration into the cave... which is exactly where it did it). I just switched over to the other one and turned the dive, then attempted to diagnose the problem on the swim back to open water.
As for breathing them down equally... I prefer to swap every 300-500psi, or before & after managing certain tasks during the course of a dive. Once you've dove the same setup with no tweaks made to it for a few dozen dives, I've found you'll know when to switch based off the subtle balance change from left to right as one side becomes lighter than the other. Usually happens around 500psi.
The preference for switching "early" around the 300psi mark, instead of 500-1000psi, is to keep as much gas in each cylinder for as long as possible. Murphy's Law guarantees the cylinder I just breathed down 1000psi lower than the other, is the one I'll be stuck breathing out of til I surface.
The #1 tip I can give if you're going to get into sidemount is to find a competent, well-regarded instructor who dives the same harness system you own and prioritizes in-water time.
Pay the money for quality training. I've taken classes that were filled with tips, tricks, and personal experiences from the instructor, and classes where I paid the money and the skill checks were literally just a list we went down to check off, because "you've been doing this a while so you should be familiar with everything." While I already had some prior experience doing all the activities conducted in those classes, you can guess which experience I walked away from feeling like I learned something new and useful...
Be safe
Six Feet Under
Contributor
I'd do it at whatever you feel more comfortable with, it mostly boils down to individual preference. I think 500psi is the commonly accepted "rule of thumb" but it also depends on the situation. There are times where I do it based on a task (when I get finished winding up a spool or reel, deploying an SMB, navigating through a restriction, dealing with flow in a smaller section of cave going into a bigger one, etc.) and I might have breathed 500-700psi before swapping regs.
When I taught SM, I used many of the techniques that my SM instructor taught me.
I took SM from Steve Lewis, and we switched at 500 PSI. Also did my AN/DP/ Adv Wreck Instructor class with him using sidemount.
It was just an easy calculation to make.
It also depends on the configuration of your gauges. Whether you lollipop them in front of you or have them pointed down along the cylinder. I always ran mine lollipopped, so it was just a glance down to see what I had.
That's also the way I taught. Students were free to do whatever they wanted after the class, and I allowed them to use both methods during the class if they wanted to. If you have the cylinders properly trimmed, the gauges out front pose no more of an entanglement hazard than any other piece of gear you may be carrying. And 1.5-inch gauges work great!
My primary cylinders were LP72s, LP85s, and LP75.5s.
The latter being used for the majority of dives to 150 ft. If the time on the bottom was going to be longer than 30 minutes, I'd take the 85s. All of these were LP steels usually filled to 2800 PSI for the 72s and 3300-3400 for the 85s and 75.5s. Commonly known as cave or wreck fills.
I did use LP50s when doing basic open water student checkout dives because they were perfect for that.
AL80s? I had them, and students would also, but for colder water and drysuits? Not ideal. Mainly because of the buoyancy characteristics. In warm water with my deco SM rig with the 20lb lift bladder, they were fine.
At one time, I owned and taught with 5 different rigs. Two of which were homemade with hardware I cut at work on the waterjet. One based around the Deco Sidemount 20lb bladder and the other around an XDeep classic wing with 45lbs of lift.
The others were by HOG, Manta, and Dive Rite. And I would sometimes use the Hollis SMS rig we had at the shop.
As an instructor, I felt it was in the students' and my best interests to not be limited to one rig.
I was also fortunate to have students let me try their rigs in the pool. That helped with setting them up and understanding the differences.
At the time I took up sidemount I had somewhere around 350 dives with over half of those in doubles.
As to the OOA scenarios, unless I was teaching rec classes in SM, my diving was with other tech divers using SM or doubles, and stuff would really have to hit the fan for an OOA to occur and require donation. I did not dive caves and when we were wreck diving in the Great Lakes it was more or less understood that you needed to take care of yourself. Most of the time, even off of a boat, I was doing the dives solo. Hence the reason for SM in the first place.
I took SM from Steve Lewis, and we switched at 500 PSI. Also did my AN/DP/ Adv Wreck Instructor class with him using sidemount.
It was just an easy calculation to make.
It also depends on the configuration of your gauges. Whether you lollipop them in front of you or have them pointed down along the cylinder. I always ran mine lollipopped, so it was just a glance down to see what I had.
That's also the way I taught. Students were free to do whatever they wanted after the class, and I allowed them to use both methods during the class if they wanted to. If you have the cylinders properly trimmed, the gauges out front pose no more of an entanglement hazard than any other piece of gear you may be carrying. And 1.5-inch gauges work great!
My primary cylinders were LP72s, LP85s, and LP75.5s.
The latter being used for the majority of dives to 150 ft. If the time on the bottom was going to be longer than 30 minutes, I'd take the 85s. All of these were LP steels usually filled to 2800 PSI for the 72s and 3300-3400 for the 85s and 75.5s. Commonly known as cave or wreck fills.
I did use LP50s when doing basic open water student checkout dives because they were perfect for that.
AL80s? I had them, and students would also, but for colder water and drysuits? Not ideal. Mainly because of the buoyancy characteristics. In warm water with my deco SM rig with the 20lb lift bladder, they were fine.
At one time, I owned and taught with 5 different rigs. Two of which were homemade with hardware I cut at work on the waterjet. One based around the Deco Sidemount 20lb bladder and the other around an XDeep classic wing with 45lbs of lift.
The others were by HOG, Manta, and Dive Rite. And I would sometimes use the Hollis SMS rig we had at the shop.
As an instructor, I felt it was in the students' and my best interests to not be limited to one rig.
I was also fortunate to have students let me try their rigs in the pool. That helped with setting them up and understanding the differences.
At the time I took up sidemount I had somewhere around 350 dives with over half of those in doubles.
As to the OOA scenarios, unless I was teaching rec classes in SM, my diving was with other tech divers using SM or doubles, and stuff would really have to hit the fan for an OOA to occur and require donation. I did not dive caves and when we were wreck diving in the Great Lakes it was more or less understood that you needed to take care of yourself. Most of the time, even off of a boat, I was doing the dives solo. Hence the reason for SM in the first place.
Hi Jim,
Thank you for you input. i also exclusively solo dive hence too i ditch the 30 CF tank and decided to take my sidemount class.
First stay was tought but on the second day something happen end everything fall into place.
I do have lollipop but decided to buy a sherwater peregrine TX that give me a SM mode and i really like it.
So my instructor told me to do the switch at 300 psi but i understand 500 psi could do the trick.
Otherwise i find out pretty quick those catalina where pointing up reaching up 2300 psi ish and so on. I was told the luxfer 80 Al where neutraly buoyant and my dive shop got them.
Only thing that botter me now is that i don't have turrets on my first stage this will wait next year, i already spend quite a bit so fair on my SM journey.
I still have to full month of diving before the end of the my season i will take care advantage of all my free days to go SM !
Thank you Jim.
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