Why does DIR reject quick disconnects?

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jonnythan:
Why do people expend so much effort to attack any detail of DIR they can? Why do they go through such lengths to find one little thing they feel is hypocrticial? Come on, a plastic QD gets in the way, they can break fairly easily, and are just a general PITA. Good lord. It's not a religion, I promise. This is silly beyond belief.

Well, here's a view from *outside* the cult. I've been diving for a quarter century and thus far I'm not dead. None of my buddies is dead. Most of use many of the precepts of DIR, but all of us DIW all the time. I've got nothing against DIR for those that want to follow it, and suspect that if I ever dived in overhead situations I might adopt it for those dives. I'm a proponent of streamlining, an opponent of festooning oneself with gewgaws, and dislike combo BC inflator/octo thingies or Spare Air. and I'm seriously considering putting my ATX200 second stage on a long hose and my ATX40 octo on a bungee around my neck. However, I'm a rec diver who sticks with non-decompression dives with single tanks in non-overhead environments. I'm not as flexible as I used to be (especially left shoulder) and QD's help. I've got a backplate with a single length of webbing - it was my first backplate. It's made of plastic, but there is no other difference from a metal one. It sucked to dive with.

DIR absolutely sounds like religion to many non-devotees. You ask why people go to "such lengths to find one little thing." It's because DIR divers go to such lengths to ridicule or reject any methods or equipment but their own. The method is exceedingly rigid and inflexible and any deviation from it is seen as unacceptable.* Many adherents describe it as the only way to dive, not just what they prefer. Highly insulting terminology is used to describe infidels^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hnonbelievers, and according to the most orthodox leaders, DIR adherents may not dive with "strokes," their term for the unclean. Change just a few aspects and you've got a cult - a closed, rigid, inflexible, self-referential system that rejects other viewpoints and promises the single path to salvation. Compare the devout catholic who is perfectly willing to answer questions about the tenets of her religion but doesn't spend all day telling Jews they're going to hell with the Scientologist who can't stop telling the guy next to him on the plane why everything he believes is right and everything the seatmate believes is worthless. Either the Catholic or the Scientologist in my example could represent the DIR diver, but it's the latter type that answers your question.

If you believe that a plastic QD will kill you, don't dive with them. If you start expecting me to believe that my diving using plastic QD's will kill me then you're asking me to adopt your faith. I do not share that faith, primarily because it's wrong - if every aspect of my system fails at my maximum depth it won't kill me. For me, being unable to ditch would be the biggest problem. I'm comfortable being at 120ft naked, but if my first stage is dead I'd much prefer to be able to lose my now-useless tank, weight system, and, yes, BC under some circumstances (if it's not holding air it's just dragging me down). For *my* diving, plastic QD's are a blessing and a welcome if minor safety feature.

*I'm a physician and former pilot. In both of these fields standardization, and plenty of it, is considered a Good Thing, but excessive rigidity and an inability constantly to question what one is doing and to deviate from the standard when indicated Will Get You (or others, possibly lots of others) Killed. I completely understand why a team of cave divers needs absolutely standard equipment and procedures. It would be silly or even irrational to apply every procedure I follow at work to my home life. Similarly, the procedures needed by cave diving teams are not necessarily the best for rec divers.

Doing it Wrong, but it works for me.
 
mstevens:
Well, here's a view from *outside* the cult. DIR absolutely sounds like religion to many non-devotees. You ask why people go to "such lengths to find one little thing." It's because DIR divers go to such lengths to ridicule or reject any methods or equipment but their own. <BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH>

Doing it Wrong, but it works for me.

Dude,

This thread started in April, 2004, and ended about a month later in May, 2004.

It died a merciful death, until you resurrected it from the grave this morning and began your rant where it left off. I'm pleased that you're happy "Doing It Wrong". It isn't as if you don't have a point.

But if you want to come on the board, go through the archives, resurrect every old DIR/Anti-DIR thread, and commence to rant...guess what?

You're going to be a busy guy.

There's about a million DIR/Anti-DIR threads in the archives, and once you work your way back to around 2002 and earlier they start to REALLY get hot. Before we got civilized we were allowed to cuss and call each other nasty names an' stuff - so we did.

So, if you want to rant against DIR, have at it. But check the dates on the threads you bring back to life. After awhile, you'll realize that the debates are starting to look strikingly familiar.

Don't be a hater! :D

Cordially,

Doc
 
Doc Intrepid:
Before we got civilized we were allowed to cuss and call each other nasty names an' stuff - so we did.
Just my luck, I miss all the fun of the good old days. :argue: :D
 
mstevens:
Well, here's a view from *outside* the cult.

stopped listening right there...

next...

:eyebrow:
 
mstevens:
DIR absolutely sounds like religion to many non-devotees. You ask why people go to "such lengths to find one little thing." It's because DIR divers go to such lengths to ridicule or reject any methods or equipment but their own.

I've yet to see a post entitled "Why non-DIR divers are going to die", nor do I ever see anyone going out of their way to ridicule methods or equipment. Actually most of what I see is non-DIR folks asking questions like:

"Is my rubbery-float thingy to keep my keys from sinking DIR or not?"

mstevens:
The method is exceedingly rigid and inflexible and any deviation from it is seen as unacceptable.* Many adherents describe it as the only way to dive, not just what they prefer. Highly insulting terminology is used to describe infidels^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hnonbelievers, and according to the most orthodox leaders, DIR adherents may not dive with "strokes," their term for the unclean.

This one cracks me up. When I first heard the stroke term being bandied about the net it took me a few 100 Google searchs before I could find the origins. George Irvine said it once, someone took it and ran with it, get over it. To use your Jew example, Hitler didn't speak for all Germans did he?

I'm nixing the whole religious thing because it's preposterous. I haven't sacrified a goat to backplate gods in alteast 2 weeks. GUE teachs a course, DIR-F, and explains all the ways to be a better diver and sends you off with some skills to practice. Sounds an awful lot like The Later Day Saints of PADI, or The First Lady of Episcocrap SSI, or any other diving class.

mstevens:
If you believe that a plastic QD will kill you, don't dive with them.

Yet again, noone stated it would kill anyone. I believe it was said back in 2004, and 19,195 times since then. Someone asked why they weren't used in the DIR system of diving, and someone kindly explained. Then the whistle blew down at the bridge factory and all the trolls came here for dinner.

mstevens:
If you start expecting me to believe that my diving using plastic QD's will kill me then you're asking me to adopt your faith.

I don't remember anyone passing out a pamphlet to you, or trying to get you to convert but you seem to be hearing things that aren't there anyway. You sound like a smart enough guy, how hard is it to the research on your own instead of taking some net-ninny's word for it? What I mean is: Rule 1) Don't discount it until you try it. Trying it does not include being a cyber DIR diver from the rules you learned on the internet, it means taking a DIR-F course.

mstevens:
I do not share that faith, primarily because it's wrong - if every aspect of my system fails at my maximum depth it won't kill me. For me, being unable to ditch would be the biggest problem.

I may be a little confused here but are you saying you can't possibly ditch gear if you don't have quick releases on your harness?

mstevens:
I'm comfortable being at 120ft naked, but if my first stage is dead I'd much prefer to be able to lose my now-useless tank, weight system, and, yes, BC under some circumstances (if it's not holding air it's just dragging me down). For *my* diving, plastic QD's are a blessing and a welcome if minor safety feature.

Yep, apparently that is what you're saying. You have been misinforminated and are the victim of misinformation.

mstevens:
I completely understand why a team of cave divers needs absolutely standard equipment and procedures. It would be silly or even irrational to apply every procedure I follow at work to my home life. Similarly, the procedures needed by cave diving teams are not necessarily the best for rec divers.

Why exactly is having standardized equipment, planning and procedures a bad thing for a team of two diving in the local quarry or shipwreck off their coast?
 
I use a Dive Rite harness with QD. The plastic can break if it's smashed with heavy metal. This same force can smash the plastic in our regulators and other equipment. I prefer the convenience of rig removal with a QD over sliding out. If the QD breaks while underwater - it has little to no impact. In fact you would be lucky to even notice it. Between the crotch strap, the other side of your harness, and gravity, the rig is going nowhere.

I get the point of the DIR position on this but it strikes me as a bit overboard. The plastic in my QD is as much of a "failure point" as the plastic in my regulators.

--Matt
 
matt_unique:
If the QD breaks while underwater - it has little to no impact. In fact you would be lucky to even notice it.
Can you say the same if you're carrying 3-5 stage bottles and you have 10,000 feet to swim before you get back to the surface? Obviously I don't know how big of an impact it would have, but I'm sure it would at best be an unnecessary inconvenience.

You don't need them, especially underwater. They can break. There's nothing more to it. A z-knife will cut the harness to pieces faster than you can unbuckle all the buckles anyway.
 
jonnythan:
A z-knife will cut the harness to pieces faster than you can unbuckle all the buckles anyway.

When I read that, I just couldn't resist. So I put down my beer, rolled my chair across the room to my gear bag, removed my crotch strap for my doubles rig and a Z-knife, and attempted to cut off a 1/2" section from one end. 1/2 second later, I had 1/2" of webbing laying in my lap. Woohoo, I love beer & Z-knifes and the internet!

phishfood
 
mstevens:
Well, here's a view from *outside* the cult. I've been diving for a quarter century and thus far I'm not dead.

Excellent! I love how people always throw the, "I've been diving for a real long time, so you better listen to me" crap out there thinking they are going to trump everyone elses arguments. I know people who have more dives in the last 6 months than you "appear" to have in the last 25 years. So, since you have this vast experience and knowledge in the realm of diving, why don't you teach us something? After all, you beat me to my first c-card by a whopping 6 years.
 
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