OP
I appreciated your input, but that's only because I hold you in high regard.
Why Do We Need Insurance?
- Thread starter Trace Malinowski
- Start date
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Cert1967
Contributor
SCUBA instructors need to look to Colorado as to the enforceability of exculpatory agreements, and other legal protections.
This thread has talked about SCUBA instructors who are employees of corporations and what their personal exposure might be. Let's look to Colorado ski instructors.
Not surprisingly, Colorado has many more ski instructors than SCUBA instructors. Colorado has perhaps more active ski instructors than there are active SCUBA instructors in the USA. Ski students most likely suffer accidents at a higher rate than SCUBA students. Yet, few ski instructors - employed by corporations in Colorado- are the subject of legal actions that involve their instruction.
At Vail the daily private lesson rate is demand based, topping out just short of $1,400/day last season. A kid's lesson with a guaranteed six or less students? That's $300/kid or $1,800 all in for the group. Keystone is similar. The instructor compensation is complicated, but it is not a percentage of lesson fees.
What do top-of-the-pile SCUBA instructors charge for a day's instruction? You folks sell your services on the cheap - IMO.
Let's look at exculpatory agreements and the inclusion of corporate employees in Colorado negliegence actions.
In Colorado, ski instructors who work for corporate entities are seldom the target of litigation.
An illustrative case is referenced below - plaintiff Brigance was injured at Keystone - owned by Vail Resorts - while participating in a ski lesson taught by Megan McKinney.
Plaintiff stated that McKinney was an 'employee and agent' of the defendant. Of note, Mckinney was not a party to this action. Neither was the lift attendant, identified as 'John Doe'. Various claims were made against the Vail Corporation. Proper use of lifts is an essential element of ski instruction.
SCUBA instructors teaching in Colorado? What might this case history lead you to decide about your individual liability while working for a corporate entity?
Florida may lead the nation in the number of SCUBA students and the dollars paid for instruction. What about exculpatory agreements in Florida?
And what about exculpatory agreements where you teach?
References
This thread has talked about SCUBA instructors who are employees of corporations and what their personal exposure might be. Let's look to Colorado ski instructors.
Not surprisingly, Colorado has many more ski instructors than SCUBA instructors. Colorado has perhaps more active ski instructors than there are active SCUBA instructors in the USA. Ski students most likely suffer accidents at a higher rate than SCUBA students. Yet, few ski instructors - employed by corporations in Colorado- are the subject of legal actions that involve their instruction.
At Vail the daily private lesson rate is demand based, topping out just short of $1,400/day last season. A kid's lesson with a guaranteed six or less students? That's $300/kid or $1,800 all in for the group. Keystone is similar. The instructor compensation is complicated, but it is not a percentage of lesson fees.
What do top-of-the-pile SCUBA instructors charge for a day's instruction? You folks sell your services on the cheap - IMO.
Let's look at exculpatory agreements and the inclusion of corporate employees in Colorado negliegence actions.
In Colorado, ski instructors who work for corporate entities are seldom the target of litigation.
An illustrative case is referenced below - plaintiff Brigance was injured at Keystone - owned by Vail Resorts - while participating in a ski lesson taught by Megan McKinney.
Plaintiff stated that McKinney was an 'employee and agent' of the defendant. Of note, Mckinney was not a party to this action. Neither was the lift attendant, identified as 'John Doe'. Various claims were made against the Vail Corporation. Proper use of lifts is an essential element of ski instruction.
Brigance v Vail Corporation 1/15-cv-01394-WJM-NYW Document 1 Filed 06/30/15 USDC Colorado.pdf
Vail prevailed on a Summary Judgement motion.Order Summary Judgment 1/15-cv-01394-WJM-NYW Document 129 Filed 01/13/17.pdf
VSRI argues that Plaintiff’s pending claims fall within the broad scope of these waivers, and that enforcing either waiver must bar all of Plaintiff’s claims. The Court agrees, and Plaintiff makes no counter-argument to show how any of her claims would fall outside the scope of the waivers’ language
Brigance appealed and lost
TERESA BRIGANCE, Plaintiff-Appellant, v. No. 17-1035 VAIL SUMMIT RESORTS, INC., Defendant - Appellee.pdf
The USCA weighed in on Colorado exculpatory agreements.
Under Colorado law, “exculpatory agreements have long been disfavored,” B & B Livery, Inc. v. Riehl, 960 P.2d 134, 136 (Colo. 1998), and it is well-established that such agreements cannot “shield against a claim for willful and wanton conduct, regardless of the circumstances or intent of the parties,” Boles v. Sun Ergoline, Inc., 223 P.3d 724, 726 (Colo. 2010). See also Espinoza v. Ark. Valley Adventures, LLC, 809 F.3d 1150, 1152 (10th Cir. 2016) (“Under Colorado common law, it’s long settled that courts will not give effect to contracts purporting to release claims for intentional, knowing, or reckless misconduct.”). “But claims of negligence are a different matter. Colorado common law does not categorically prohibit the enforcement of contracts seeking to release claims of negligence.” Espinoza, 809 F.3d at 1152; accord Chadwick v. Colt Ross Outfitters, Inc., 100 P.3d 465, 467 (Colo. 2004). Neither does it always preclude exculpatory agreements as to claims of negligence per se. Espinoza, 809 F.3d at 1154–55
SCUBA instructors teaching in Colorado? What might this case history lead you to decide about your individual liability while working for a corporate entity?
Florida may lead the nation in the number of SCUBA students and the dollars paid for instruction. What about exculpatory agreements in Florida?
And what about exculpatory agreements where you teach?
References
Passenger Tramway Safety Procedures, CRS
Skier Safety Act, CRS
“Point on the doll where the mean insurance man violated you.” Lol
Like I said, given you own an insurance company it is unrealistic to expect that you would have any objectivity with regards to this subject. Thank you so much for making my point.
I own an insurance agency. BIG difference. Claims affect companies negatively. Negative handling of claims affects agencies negatively. You turn in a claim it doesn’t affect me at all. My company does a poor job handling a claim, if affects me quite a bit.
I go to bat for the home owner every single time as long as the home owner isn’t trying to pull some fraudulent bs. Of course, my clients are by majority 1 percenters (by design) and they don’t try to perpetrate much fraud.
I’m not sure I explained this slow enough for you that you won’t again jump to your own misguided assumptions again. Suffice it to say, I have one of the top agencies in the country. Based on sales, customer satisfaction and retention. That didn’t happen by me and my team not doing things the right way.
I stand corrected vis a vis you owning an insurance agency vs. an insurance company. Let me correct my statement, given that you sell insurance for a living it is unrealistic to expect that you have any objectivity with regards to this subject.
At the end of the day, I’ll still be a multimillionaire and you’ll still hate the establishment. Who’s winning? Lol.
Think I’ll fly one of my planes to the Keys to go diving this weekend. Lol
Once again thank you for proving my point. LMAO
Lol, these guys like Trace and others have known me for decades, personally. They knew me making $8/hr. They knew me when I was selling them $50k per month in dive gear to the members here. They were part of the decision when I moved into life insurance sales and started moving away from dive gear sales. They were there for the collapse of my finances when a hurricane destroyed my home and there for the death of my 16 year old son. They were there when I started to recover from both. Several of the people on this board helped me emotionally, spiritually and even financially. At one point I owed people on this board 10’s of thousands of dollars. Eventually I recovered and was able to repay their generosity. Today, I give away more money to complete strangers than most people make in a year. (I’m able to because of my success in this field) And long timers here have been by my side every step of the way. Many of them clients.
You on the other hand don’t know me. You make assumptions about me, but if you think you’re making some kind of point, you missed your mark. I’m sorry Insurance isn’t for you. I’m guessing you got ripped off going with a terrible (but cheap) company. Or you’re bad at math. But I’ve spent my entire life helping others. This is my calling. I do it because I care. And because I care, I’ve become pretty well off. You should try it.
I tell people all the time, “I’m the Harvard of insurance. Not everyone can get into Harvard”. You’d never make it. I’d spot you a mile away and tell you that I’m not the agent for you.
Peace!
So besides lacking objectivity with regards to this subject, you are completely and utterly insecure. Just go back selling insurance and flying your plane. BTW, you have a plane and the best you can do is the Keys, really? LMAO
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