Why do we hate the Air2?

[BDSC]

Since most of the recreational divers who use Air II's will continue to breather their primary if a buddy is OOA, they donate the short hosed air II, ............When you look at a DIR diver breathing the long hose they are trained to donate to a buddy, you can see how instantaneously the reg comes off the head and is handesd off, and with the necklace reg right under the DIR diver's chin, he is only an instant away from his next breath.

For the most part in all of these AIR II threads that pop up, those that use the AIR II (or something like it) will say that in an OOA, they would donate their primary and use the AIR II themselves, yet you claim that the opposite is true. Just wondering what you base that on?

For any of you instructors that are following this thread and use the AIR II system in your classes, do you train your students to donate their primary or donate their AIR II? I would think anyone, not just a DIR diver, can be trained to donate their primary.

 

[James R]

Since most of the recreational divers who use Air II's will continue to breather their primary if a buddy is OOA, they donate the short hosed air II, and end up swimming with a buddy almost embracing them--the legs bumping on swimming, making it difficult and annoying for swimming....in a bad scenario, annoying means stressful and dangerous.
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The worst thing about the Air II to me, is that it will destroy swimming the way it will be used by most divers, along with bouyancy control complications.

This is completely untrue and wrong! You do not donate your Air2. Why would you donate your buoyancy control to an OOG and likely panic-stricken diver? That's just nonsense and ignorant of how divers are trained to react in an out of air situation with an Air2.

I can see trying to argue that the long-hose aka DIR way is superior (and I don't disagree, even though one of my rigs has an Air2 on it), but come on! At least argue your point with the actual facts, not fiction.

Have you ever done an out of air drill with an Air2 or another diver that's using one? Again, I agree that it's not the ideal situation, but you can easily make a safe ascent with it. It's not like you'd be likely to find one in a tec dive with mandatory stops.

 

[BDSC]

Without exception, a conventional octo is selected to facilitate the most critical of function of scuba diving (OOA).

Since I have just learned the concept today I know I could be wrong but it seems to me that this could fall under the category of a "word salad sentence".

 

[danvolker]

For the most part in all of these AIR II threads that pop up, those that use the AIR II (or something like it) will say that in an OOA, they would donate their primary and use the AIR II themselves, yet you claim that the opposite is true. Just wondering what you base that on?

For any of you instructors that are following this thread and use the AIR II system in your classes, do you train your students to donate their primary or donate their AIR II? I would think anyone, not just a DIR diver, can be trained to donate their primary.

I base that on observations of the very large population of charter boat divers off of south florida...where I have been diving every week for many years. When I ask them, they will say they were trained to breath the primary, and to donate the octopus. When they got the air II, that was the new octopus.... They were NEVER TRAINED TO DONATE THE PRIMARY....donating the primary is more of a DIR thing, or DIRish, and while some instructors on this board may teach this, it is not what most agency training specifies, that I am AWARE of.
At least with DIR, there are reams of information on exactly how to do an air share drill with the long hose primary and necklace reg...and plenty of people offering to demo this.... with Air II, I have never seen people with them doing "airshare drills", or seen big thread on the net about the techniques of sharing air with an airII ( the donating the primary you are talking about) or of the "optimal configuration for this--meaning how long the hose should be, etc.

 

[BDSC]

This is completely untrue and wrong! At least argue your point with the actual facts, not fiction.

But it is so much easier to argue your point when you just make up stuff. Didn't you know that?

 

[VooDooGasMan]

Scott there is only one expert, he does not use a ALT air source, and prefers his 1st stage in front(double hose). There is no experts in diving, just wannabe's.

Cousteau, is now a legend, and diving is as easy as he made it. This gimmick of alternate air to give your buddy is for today's diver. Mike Nelson did not have ALT, and did just fine making shows.


I prefer diving a harness backpack with only a first and second stage, and a speargun, stringer and A rope hooked to inflatable above.

Of course that is on some dive sites, and dive other configurations at other dive sites.

 

[TSandM]

Oh, I'm quite sure anybody can be trained to donate the primary. But for example, in the classes taught at the shop where I sometimes DM, students are trained in standard short hose primary/longer hose clipped off octo. Then they are often sold the BC with the Air2, without any significant explanation of how the thing is to be used. They were taught to hand off their "secondary" regulator -- now it's an Air2, and nobody has told them you don't use it that way. Just as nobody tells them that, even if you ARE going to use it as designed, you need a longer hose on your primary regulator, because sharing on a 24" hose is a pain.

It's not the fault of the equipment. It's the fault of the salesperson who doesn't explain it, and the purchaser who doesn't do his homework. And people WILL revert to what they originally learned.

 

[gmanstan]

Ok..I am trying to imagine the logistics of managing an ascent like this - from the perspective of a novice-intermediate diver.

The diver has a slightly panicking/apprehensive buddy... they are using their right hands to maintain a grip on each other... they are in very close proximity, because the doner has passed over his standard length primary reg... they are in a vertical ascent position (horizontal being impossible due to reg hose length)... that denies the effective use of the lower dump valves... so the doner now has to reach across their torso... in between to the two divers...trying not to dislodge the donated reg or knock the victims' mask... to access the dump valve on his right shoulder....he now can't see any of his gauges to control the ascent... the upper dump valve is far from precise... so buoyancy gets lost by one accidental over-deflation... he then has to re-acquire the LPI and add some more... then put his hand back onto the opposite shoulder to dump again....

Cripes... sounds like a horrible, nasty mess to deal with....

Well if you are doing an emergency ascent I would think you are vertical,not swimming around horizontally. And If you grab with left arm you can still see your wrist mounted computer and right hand is free for shoulder dump or inflator. Allowing you to vent and kick up slowly for a controlled ascent.

 

[Some X Dry]

Decided to giant stride into this thread as my first on this HUGE forum. Diving both configurations of gear (Back inflate/Air2 & BP/W DIR REC), I found the DIR approach of long house with necklaced Octo to be more suited for most of the diving I now do. Wreck, Cavern, OW.

The Air2 has only one place IMO and that is strictly OW. Properly used, PRACTICED and configured it will do the job it was meant to do. Long Hose on primary to be donated and Miflex on the Air2 to allow less restricted head movement. The issue of access to dumps then disappears. I like my Air2. It serves me well when applied as stated. IMO attempting to use it for any other type of diving is asking for problems though.

I will add this last.... At ANY time you find yourself diving with someone that has a different configured gear set, Communicate.. We all love to talk about our gear sets anyway. Forums are proof of that. Discussion also allows one to gauge the competency of the other "insta-buddy". This is most important for me when I decide to hit one of the local charters when the usual buddy can't make it. Be polite, humble and respectful. If your the Ego type you will the one everyone will be talking about later. Thanks and Safe Diving..

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I base that on observations of the very large population of charter boat divers off of south florida...where I have been diving every week for many years. When I ask them, they will say they were trained to breath the primary, and to donate the octopus. When they got the air II, that was the new octopus.... They were NEVER TRAINED TO DONATE THE PRIMARY....donating the primary is more of a DIR thing, or DIRish, and while some instructors on this board may teach this, it is not what most agency training specifies, that I am AWARE of.
At least with DIR, there are reams of information on exactly how to do an air share drill with the long hose primary and necklace reg...and plenty of people offering to demo this.... with Air II, I have never seen people with them doing "airshare drills", or seen big thread on the net about the techniques of sharing air with an airII ( the donating the primary you are talking about) or of the "optimal configuration for this--meaning how long the hose should be, etc.

This speaks more of bad training than bad equipment choices.

The Air2 is designed and intended to be used by the donor ... not the receiver ... as per the manufacturer's instructions.

With ANY inline second stage, you donate the primary and use the inline backup. In that respect it has one of the major advantages you get with a long hose/bungee backup rig ... you know that the reg you're donating works ...

... Bob (Grateful Dive)