Why did Horse Collar BC's fade away?
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That's a valid question but fortunately, my Horse Collar BC has the same "controls" as a more modern BCD. An overpressure purge valve and a pull purge in the corrugated hose. The only real difference in controls, is that mine has a CO2 trigger inflator. However, unlike most of the other inflators, mine is in good shape with a new cartridge, the safety wire clipped into the trigger and the pull ball is up under the pocket flap. I've heard of them being popped off accidentally but it never happened to anybody I knew.
Nah, I wasn't a badass but I was in better shape than I'm in now! Even so, I cheated a little carrying my tanks up the ladder. i would set them down on the next step, go up another step, lift them up a step, etc. etc.
As far as the underwater harrasment, it was to cause stress as in an underwater emergency. I understood that but it didn't make it any easier. After ten minutes of having my air turned off, my J valve flipped to On, my weight belt unbuckled and my fins grabbed and then flip me over on my head, I started fighting back and yanking their gear off. They called it and passed me. That was in about 1972 in the pool on the Hurlburt Air Force Special Operations Base in North Florida.
I had a real Horse Collar BC but some of the guys had ones they stole from the Air Force and modified. They worked just as well. After the pool work and class room stuff, we had to do a free ascent from sixty feet in open water and three dives to one hundred foot plus to get our final certifications.
One of the things the Instructors looked for, was excessive air in our BC's. To much air meant to much weight and that meant you weren't paying attention in weight management class. I saw a couple of guys get recycled for more training because of that.
ScubaSandbug
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I wish they were still around as much as they were, Easier to dump a belt, than get those pocket weights out. Easier to take the tank off too after existing the water! I'll keep looking and find a great combo!
There's a few up on Fleabay right now but plan on a full rejuv! The bladder in mine is still in excellent shape but I've heard you can make your own from the same stuff waterbeds are made from. There's one company that I found that makes new ones but they're black only. I like bright colors. I have actually considered buying a cheap leaky one to disassemble right down to the individual pieces of material so that I can duplicate it with newer material.
I'm going to try explaining a lot of entries to this thread. In saying this, realize that in the 1970s I was actively trying to get a different front-mount design out into the diving community. It was rejected by several companies. I called it the Para-Sea BCD, and it answered all the questions you pose above. I patented it, and this allowed for the separation of the BCD from the Scuba unit. It provided pockets to allow the air to travel from the neck to the pockets, which were close to the center of gravity of the diver. I patented the Para-Sea concept, but had no takers.
Now, about "straps," the dive companies decided to integrate the BCD with the scuba, so that you could not use one without the other. This led to more sales for them. Did you guys (not just Wibble) notice that a BCD now costs as much or more than a regulator; that did not have to be. But the companies decided that the profit from BCDs was more important than surface safety aspects of the buoyancy compensation devices.
I put together a presentation called The History of Buoyancy Compensation for a presentation several years ago, and will send it to anyone who wants it (it's too large to post here). By the way, the Para-Sea BCD is probably the most expensive BCD ever, as my patent was never used, and no monies came forth.
SeaRat
Attachments
I still have two Seatec Sunfish horse collar BCs. One is NIB in reserve, the other is in fine shape and I use it from time to time. I enjoy the large front pocket, I disarmed the CO2 cartridge. And I will interject right now, popping the cartridge at depth is a non-event.
I use the horse collar for warm water shore diving where a swim out and back might be required with snorkel assist, example of a place I use it at, St Andrews Jetty State Park in Florida or the Destin Finger Jetty or Commercial Pier shore diving Fort Lauderdale. Since I am in minimal exposure suits I need minimal lead and thus getting a good trim is relatively easy as little or no air is entered into the horse collar, basically as if diving sans BC but with flotation assist for the swim out, back or if I get tired, lol. When you young folks get older and you will get tired occasionally and want to take a nap or at least catch your breath for a bit
.
As soon as exposure protection suits are added, lead is added and the horse collar sucks as it tends to rotate me head up and level trim is a challenge.
For most diving that needs a BC, which is not all diving, a wing and back plate rigged single tank or multi-tank Hog is far superior. Level trim is easy regardless of exposure suit, none or a full suit, the wing is the thing! My first wing was Scubapro circa 1976, I also have had and worn to shreds two Seatec Seahorse wings. Then called back inflate. They were wings.
I use the horse collar for warm water shore diving where a swim out and back might be required with snorkel assist, example of a place I use it at, St Andrews Jetty State Park in Florida or the Destin Finger Jetty or Commercial Pier shore diving Fort Lauderdale. Since I am in minimal exposure suits I need minimal lead and thus getting a good trim is relatively easy as little or no air is entered into the horse collar, basically as if diving sans BC but with flotation assist for the swim out, back or if I get tired, lol. When you young folks get older and you will get tired occasionally and want to take a nap or at least catch your breath for a bit
.As soon as exposure protection suits are added, lead is added and the horse collar sucks as it tends to rotate me head up and level trim is a challenge.
For most diving that needs a BC, which is not all diving, a wing and back plate rigged single tank or multi-tank Hog is far superior. Level trim is easy regardless of exposure suit, none or a full suit, the wing is the thing! My first wing was Scubapro circa 1976, I also have had and worn to shreds two Seatec Seahorse wings. Then called back inflate. They were wings.
If you find an old AP Valves one, send it to AP and they will give you a refurbishment cost. It will come back like new - except for the faded colour.
They still live on in the form of the snorkel vest.I still have two Seatec Sunfish horse collar BCs. One is NIB in reserve, the other is in fine shape and I use it from time to time. I enjoy the large front pocket, I disarmed the CO2 cartridge. And I will interject right now, popping the cartridge at depth is a non-event.
I use the horse collar for warm water shore diving where a swim out and back might be required with snorkel assist, example of a place I use it at, St Andrews Jetty State Park in Florida or the Destin Finger Jetty or Commercial Pier shore diving Fort Lauderdale. Since I am in minimal exposure suits I need minimal lead and thus getting a good trim is relatively easy as little or no air is entered into the horse collar, basically as if diving sans BC but with flotation assist for the swim out, back or if I get tired, lol. When you young folks get older and you will get tired occasionally and want to take a nap or at least catch your breath for a bit
As soon as exposure protection suits are added, lead is added and the horse collar sucks as it tends to rotate me head up and level trim is a challenge.
For most diving that needs a BC, which is not all diving, a wing and back plate rigged single tank or multi-tank Hog is far superior. Level trim is easy regardless of exposure suit, none or a full suit, the wing is the thing! My first wing was Scubapro circa 1976, I also have had and worn to shreds two Seatec Seahorse wings. Then called back inflate. They were wings.
I have a slightly different take. Companies responded to the divers who wanted to be trim in the water and the early concept of the BC being a life jacket, seperate from the scuba, having evolved from indeed a lifejacket, Mae West, came to an evolutionary end. BCs are not life jackets, they are not approved by any agency for surface flotation to keep the air way clear and head up. And those things are not really the purpose of a device called a buoyancy compensator. Whose sole purposes are to compensate for lead and suit compression and to provide the diver with a trim and level, more or less, swimming position in the water. I can only imagine the mayhem and damage that could be caused to the marine environment with horse collar BC equipped divers, overweighted perhaps, water walking, head up and fins down, across the reef.
The horse collar had it's day, like every dog is promised, they are just not what divers wanted. They suck at buoyancy compensation which is the prime, if not only purpose of a BC. But, yes, if reading between the lines, many BCs, especially the soft, fluffy jacket types, are sold on comfort and safety because so much of the diver community, unlike the olden times, rather than being watermen and women, are essentially non-swimmers and somewhat fearful of the water. Thus the resistance to the BP/wing by major companies who only belatedly, along with some of the training agencies (padi), gave into back mounted wings.
The horse collar had it's day, like every dog is promised, they are just not what divers wanted. They suck at buoyancy compensation which is the prime, if not only purpose of a BC. But, yes, if reading between the lines, many BCs, especially the soft, fluffy jacket types, are sold on comfort and safety because so much of the diver community, unlike the olden times, rather than being watermen and women, are essentially non-swimmers and somewhat fearful of the water. Thus the resistance to the BP/wing by major companies who only belatedly, along with some of the training agencies (padi), gave into back mounted wings.
Yes, the Horse Collar BC is outdated, although not totally obsolete. And yes, it has been passed on by technology. I'm old fashioned though because I prefer my Horse Collar to anything newer. It's just more comfortable and I've never had any of the alleged problems associated with them. Mine has never tried to roll me over, caused balance problems, squished me between it and the tanks, tried to smush my face into the water, etc. Then again, I was trained on weight versus buoyancy by Instructors who didn't really give a cr@p about my opinion!
I honestly tried to use the newer jacket types. Two different jackets, twice in a pool and once in open water. Underwater, I saw absolutely no benefits to it. I felt like I was towing something behind me because it had so much drag compared to what i'm used to. Granted, I did not give it to much time to train with it so my opinion is probably biased.
Overall NOPE! Never again! If you relax on the surface, it WILL smush your face into the water! Period! . However, my trusty old fashioned and outdated Horse Collar BC will let me just lay back and relax. Yeah yeah yeah I know. Emergencies never happen anymore with modern equipment and training. Blah blah blah.
Hey! Sheeiit happens! I saw a program not long ago about a guy who got separated from his boat and was adrift for several days. He dumped all of his gear and had to remove his BC so he could climb on top of it and lay there. The one time we got separated from the boat, we just inflated our Horse Collar BC's and floated comfortably on our backs. Sure, it was only for a little over an hour but we were never worried or distressed, thanks to our BC's.
I'm not trying to convince anybody to change preferences. Use what you were trained with. I just wanted to know why Horse Collar type BC's faded from use. I've heard a lot of people here talk about the jackets and wings being better balanced so I guess that's a big reason. But, I also think Marketing and standardization had a lot to do with it.
I'll continue to use my Horse Collar for the types of diving I do. 'Course, I'm old fashioned. I still wear a BFK on my leg and carry a snorkel! The first Buoyancy Control I learned, was a bag of weights tied to the anchor. When you got to the bottom, you took some off or added some to get the right weight.
I honestly tried to use the newer jacket types. Two different jackets, twice in a pool and once in open water. Underwater, I saw absolutely no benefits to it. I felt like I was towing something behind me because it had so much drag compared to what i'm used to. Granted, I did not give it to much time to train with it so my opinion is probably biased.
Overall NOPE! Never again! If you relax on the surface, it WILL smush your face into the water! Period! . However, my trusty old fashioned and outdated Horse Collar BC will let me just lay back and relax. Yeah yeah yeah I know. Emergencies never happen anymore with modern equipment and training. Blah blah blah.
Hey! Sheeiit happens! I saw a program not long ago about a guy who got separated from his boat and was adrift for several days. He dumped all of his gear and had to remove his BC so he could climb on top of it and lay there. The one time we got separated from the boat, we just inflated our Horse Collar BC's and floated comfortably on our backs. Sure, it was only for a little over an hour but we were never worried or distressed, thanks to our BC's.
I'm not trying to convince anybody to change preferences. Use what you were trained with. I just wanted to know why Horse Collar type BC's faded from use. I've heard a lot of people here talk about the jackets and wings being better balanced so I guess that's a big reason. But, I also think Marketing and standardization had a lot to do with it.
I'll continue to use my Horse Collar for the types of diving I do. 'Course, I'm old fashioned. I still wear a BFK on my leg and carry a snorkel! The first Buoyancy Control I learned, was a bag of weights tied to the anchor. When you got to the bottom, you took some off or added some to get the right weight.
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