Why did Horse Collar BC's fade away?

[Nemrod]

This is not a BCD! This is an airline life vest, and a stewardess is demonstrating (poorly) how to don it. Those were all one size, and not the size of large people. The U.S. Divers Company Went BCD had a large neck opening, and would not look like this.

SeaRat

Noooooooo-

And if we were to put that little SeaTec on todays, uh, modern size folks it would look exactly like Tommy Boy and his life jacket. I am barely 170 pounds soaking wet and I feel like Tommy Boy when I inflate the thing around me. Yes, it probably has something to do with the lack of popularity.

If you might think I am poking fun at horse collar BCs, you would be correct, I am .

 

[John C. Ratliff]

Nemrod, and others. Do any of these new (1981) instructors look like they are being chocked by their BCDs?

SeaRat

 

[Nemrod]

I cannot say, except I find an inflated horse collar uncomfortable and confining and causes me claustrophobia and anxiety pressing against my chest and riding up in my crotch. It really comes down to this, do you want a (unapproved) life jacket that is a really poor BC (horse collar) or do you want a BC that is really good at buoyancy compensation and trim and really poor at being a life jacket (wing/BP). Or something in between (like a Stab Jacket). And I think the market spoke. I do not think any tricks were played on customers, a clear preference was given and they voted with their dollars.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

The market spoke, but for the wrong reasons. The market didn’t want straps, as new divers find them a problem (because they don’t know any better). They also wanted integrated units to sell more units, as the cylinder and the BCD were integral, and eagle scuba needed its own BCD (more sales).

I wanted both of what you talked about above, so I designed the Para-Sea BCD. It cannot ride up, due to the parachute-style harness. It has a four-point contact with the scuba (shoulder straps, and two hip connectors). The CG (center of gravity) changes depending upon whether horizontal or vertical, and so is ideal for both diving and surface use. It will keep an unconscious diver face-up too. That was my design parameters, and I’m still using my prototypes.

DSC00294 by John Ratliff, on Flickr
A dive in Big Cliff Reservoir on the Santiam River a few years back. Photo by Sid Macken.

Seal Fins at High Rocks by John Ratliff, on Flickr
A dive at High Rocks on the Clackamas River, last year (2022).

SeaRat

 

[Waterwulf]

If your Horse Collar BC is inflated more than a just a puff or two while on a dive, you're to heavy! After reading the responses here, I'm sure of one thing. A lot of the responders never tried a Horse Collar and are just parroting stuff they read someplace or "Joe's cousin said"., etc. Puffing up around your neck? Rolling you over on your back? Squishing you between the tanks and the vest? To tight a crotch strap?

What a load of cr@p! Every so called problem is a direct result of lack of training! To heavy or adjusted wrong, etc. That was the real problem with the Horse Collar BC's: They required more training to make them work correctly. That was the real downfall of that type of BC. Everybody wanted faster training and faster getting ready and less complicated gear, etc. The Horse Collar BC required more training in it's use and more care in getting "dressed for the dive". "Does the tank go on first or the BC vest?" I get it. Simpler is easier but it ain't always better!

 

[Nemrod]

I think we have reached an irreconcilable impasse regarding opinion of the horse collar BC.

I think the Clackamas River looks like a really fun dive and as long as it is warm enough that I would not need to bulk up with neoprene I would enjoy (not having to) use of my horse collar SeaTec. Let's explore that Clackamas River, you are shallow so there is little or no suit compression, it appears to be fairly warm water so you do not use a lot of suit, there is no long surface swim involved to get to the dive site, there is no loitering on the surface awaiting pick up, there is no boat traffic that might suggest enough air in the BC to get the head up to swivel. That is why extrapolating one set of experiences to another's is not often useful.

I prefer, generally, nothing up front, a clean office and this free dive wetsuit is super flexible and unconstricting (my wife got me two (!) of them on Amazon $56 and $75, each deal of the day!). It is like diving naked but warmer . And you cannot see me, how cool is that



The Dacor my new wife is using was one of my favorite horse collars. It has the lift BC bladder under the tummy and it had a large neck opening, a huge pocket and no air was ever introduced into the upper bladder unless you were wanting a life jacket instead of a BC . Alas, it finally succumbed to age and fell apart. I gave it an honorable burial at sea, RIP my Dacor horse collar BC friend. You were good in your day and I loved using you.

 

[Nemrod]

Yard work is hard, cooling off. Okay, so this question was asked:

Why did Horse Collar BC's fade away?​

And several have given various and similar reasons. I began working for a dive store in 1970 and continued through 1980 starting as the shop boy and ending as a NAUI AI and trip leader coordinator, mostly Scubapro/NAUI stores. When the horse collar was all there was in lieu of nothing, that is what customers bought. When the back inflate (wing) came out customers and industry pros did not know what to make of it and it was not until the tech era that the now called wing caught on. At that time people were still in life jacket thinking mode:



You want to know what killed the horse collar? No, not all the fussy straps, not so much the perception of my Tommy Boy example that apparently some missed the humor in, nope, none of that. It was this:



Yep, the Stabilizing Jacket. And it came in sizes! So the 5-2 and 90 pounds wet woman did not wear the same size as the 6-4 230 pounds man. Game changer and game over for the horse collar overnight . I was there selling the things. The back inflate (wing) soldiered on in obscurity with early converts like me. I even had a PADI shop in Fort Lauderdale refuse to allow it to be used! But the jackets and their derivatives live on to this day and are by far the most popular and yes I think most profitable.

So ask a question, be prepared that the potential answers might not be to your liking. When the Stab Jacket landed, there was no way I could sell a one size fits all life jacket fitted with a power inflator and all manner of fussy straps dangling all over. Customer perceptions, one was sleek and modern and the other looked like, well, something army surplus derived like Tommy Boy's picture.

 

[Gone for diving]

Just a thought but wouldn't the start of large steel tanks been what made wings more popular?

Plus once you double them you really sink...
I would hate to have a horse collar for that.

I know I have seen a picture of early cave diver with a jug that was used for buoyancy, not clear how it was mounted...

 

[Angelo Farina]

Just a thought but wouldn't the start of large steel tanks been what made wings more popular?

Plus once you double them you really sink...
I would hate to have a horse collar for that.

I know I have seen a picture of early cave diver with a jug that was used for buoyancy, not clear how it was mounted...

???
Double steel tanks were the norm when I started diving.
I used them during my first course...
No BCD, of course.
Or horse collar, for wealthy divers.
Single tanks arrived much later, around 1980, and initially they were fitted with backplate and wing.
They were bulky, unbalanced and less streamlined than a twin tank of same capacity, so they were slow being accepted.
Only when matched with jacket-style BCDs they became the standard, being more confortable and less bulky.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

Just a thought but wouldn't the start of large steel tanks been what made wings more popular?

Plus once you double them you really sink...
I would hate to have a horse collar for that.

I know I have seen a picture of early cave diver with a jug that was used for buoyancy, not clear how it was mounted...

By large steel tanks, you mean something other than the standard 71.2 steel tanks of yesteryear; you’re talking about the massive, high pressure steel tanks of today. These steel tanks of today are very heavy, and are not neutral in the water when empty. So I can see why that would make the wings popular. But realize, I also would not use them, as they are too heavy to use without the BCD.

SeaRat