Why aren't more people taking up scuba diving?

[pdhenry]

All the dives? You're saying that all AOW dives have to be supervised by the same instructor? And you're sure of that?

 

[boulderjohn]

All the dives? You're saying that all AOW dives have to be supervised by the same instructor? And you're sure of that?

I never said that.

The dives can be supervised by a number of instructors. The final one is the certifying instructor. That person has to verify that the other instructors were valid. That is just about never a problem. If a student pays for an AOW class, thatr payment usually goes to a shop, and if more than one instructor is involved, they know each other and can talk about the situation while gearing up. As I understand it (and I repeat that I am not sure I understand it correctly), in this case, the student is saying another instructor in a different country on a different continent did all the work for the class but for some reason did not send in the certification. Rather than contact that instructor and ask that he send in the certification, the student wanted a totally new instructor who does not know the supposed supervising instructor from Adam to do a couple of dives with her to verify that she had all the skills for all five dives and then certify her.

Just to give you an idea, I recently certified two AOW students, and it took two dives to complete the navigation requirements alone. It can take a while.

 

[pdhenry]

PADI promotes AOW as a series of 5 "adventure dives." Complete five and you can become certified. In fact you can complete three and be an "Adventure Diver" and then get two more later. At least that's what they tell a diver.

If you’re already an Adventure Diver, you only need to complete two more Adventure Dives to earn the Advanced Open Water Diver certification.

It's not clear from the diver's end that PADI expects the instructors on the five dives to know each other from Adam.

When I completed my post-AOW course survey PADI was interested in confirming that my certifying instructor was the one who supervised the final dive.

 

[boulderjohn]

PADI promotes AOW as a series of 5 "adventure dives." Complete five and you can become certified. In fact you can complete three and be an "Adventure Diver" and then get two more later. At least that's what they tell a diver.It's not clear from the diver's end that PADI expects the instructors on the five dives to know each other from Adam.

When I completed my post-AOW course survey PADI was interested in confirming that my certifying instructor was the one who supervised the final dive.

I see. So you would have no issues if you were an instructor and a student you had never met came up to you with a log book with signatures from someone you don't know and said that this unknown instructor did all the work for the course but didn't feel like sending in the certification? You would cheerfully sign off for this student's certification?

If you ever get to be an instructor for any agency, I'll tell you what. I will send you a log book with signatures indicating that I have completed every course the agency offers, and you can send in the certification documents for me. No problem, right?

 

[EFX]

I see. So you would have no issues if you were an instructor and a student you had never met came up to you with a log book with signatures from someone you don't know and said that this unknown instructor did all the work for the course but didn't feel like sending in the certification? You would cheerfully sign off for this student's certification?

I'm not an instructor and I agree with you in that there is a trust issue. Given that, how do referrals work? The student completes the KR's with one shop/instructor(s) and does the checkout dives with another shop/instructor(s). Don't we have the same trust issue?

 

[redacted]

I see. So you would have no issues if you were an instructor and a student you had never met came up to you with a log book with signatures from someone you don't know and said that this unknown instructor did all the work for the course but didn't feel like sending in the certification? You would cheerfully sign off for this student's certification?

If you ever get to be an instructor for any agency, I'll tell you what. I will send you a log book with signatures indicating that I have completed every course the agency offers, and you can send in the certification documents for me. No problem, right?

I know PADI has an OW referral system. Why is it not usable in situations like this?

 

[TMHeimer]

I would think there are 2 reasons an actual referral program is set up for OW but not officially for AOW. The first would be that the OW course is a standard course all take and (at least should be) the same everywhere. AOW involves any assortment of the other 3 Adventure Dives other than the required two. The other reason is probably that I imagine it rarely happens that the AOW is taken at 2 different shops, let alone shops on different sides of the world. When I was doing AOW in FL I did the first 3 dives in the Springs but needed a boat to do the required Deep dive and another. The instructor said if the boat didn't go out (it was winter) I could be an Adventure Diver and finish up at home or elsewhere. I kept after them about the boat and got lucky as others chartered it and my instructor and I jumped on. I could forsee possible problems finishing AOW elsewhere, plus I wanted to then do Rescue at home (AOW was then required for doing Rescue). But it would seem that a system could be set up usuing official PADI shop and OSWI numbers and perhaps e mail/phone calls to confirm which instructor did which dives with the student. That may elliminate a lot of the trust issues? Just some thoughts.

 

[boulderjohn]

I'm not an instructor and I agree with you in that there is a trust issue. Given that, how do referrals work? The student completes the KR's with one shop/instructor(s) and does the checkout dives with another shop/instructor(s). Don't we have the same trust issue?

The referral from is an official form in which the beginning instructor is clearly handing off the student to the the certifying instructor. The certifying instructor checks to make sure the student is prepared to do the dives, and then the certifying instructor supervises all the actual certification dives for the certification. All the referring instructor did was prepare the student to do an adequate job for the certifying instructor. If the job was not done well enough, the student will not pass the certification dives. There is no trust involved--the student passes the class after having demonstrated the skills to the certifying instructor's satisfaction.

That is the PADI system, and the trust issue is why PADI does not support the universal system used by other agencies. In that system, the certifying instructor is the one who sent the referral. That instructor issues the certification without seeing the student perform in the open water. In that case, PADI argues that there is a significant trust issue, and there could potentially be liability to the certifying instructor if the student turns out not to have performed well enough (or at all) on the OW dives and then has a later accident because of poor preparation.

As I understand it in this case, there was no official form of any kind at all, just log book entries and no understanding of why the instructor who did the certification dives did not submit the official paperwork for them.

I know PADI has an OW referral system. Why is it not usable in situations like this?

In the OW system, the student has a fairly extensive class covering a number of hours. It has four quizzes and culminates in a long final exam. It can also be done online, in which case there is an official record of it. The student then does extensive work in a pool. The referring instructor fills out an official form verifying that the work was done.

There is no corresponding process for AOW. The knowledge reviews are fairly short, and there are no quizzes or exams. The focus is on the dives themselves. The knowledge review process is normally handled easily by the instructor doing the dives. Again, as I understand this, the student was not asking for a referral system that goes from preparation for the dives followed by a referral to the person who does the dives. The student is asking for credit for the whole whole course (5 dives) while only doing 2 dives.

 

[Scott]

I wonder if the instructor (or any instructor) would have accepted the dives in Roatan had the 'referring' instructor sent any one of the two training forms associated with adventure dives?
Advanced Open Water Training Record or Adventures In Diving Documentation Worksheet.

What types of dives was the Las Vegas instructor going to conduct? Just go dive to assess skills, redo the deep, navigation dives, 'elective' adventure dives, or add two additional adventure dives and have the student complete the knowledge reviews from those sections?

 

[ballastbelly]

[h=1]Why aren't more people taking up scuba diving?[/h]
the answer is simple, they are taking up freediving instead.

-its safer (no life support equipment needed, less points of failure, no bends or expansion risks)
-as an extreme sport it has a higher cool factor
-no heavy tank to break your back
-less weights needed, no computer needed, if water is warm no gear at all is needed (like how the natives do it)
-instruction course & literature are straightforward & gets straight to the beef
-its FREE !