Why aren't more people taking up scuba diving?

[pdhenry]

Correct, but it is not always easy to find that instructor for confirmation. I can look up any instructor number to verify that the name and number are active in the system, but that is all it will tell me.

OK, I was under the assumption that the instructor's signature and PADI info would be assumed adequate to the certifying instructor. What confirmation would you be looking for, given that the instructor has already signed off the dive(s)?

 

[boulderjohn]

OK, I was under the assumption that the instructor's signature and PADI info would be assumed adequate to the certifying instructor. What confirmation would you be looking for, given that the instructor has already signed off the dive(s)?

If the instructor had signed off on the dives, then he should have also signed off on the certification, in which case there would be no issues. If someone showed me a sheet of paper showing that an instructor I don't know had done everything but had decided not to sign off on the certification, I would sure be asking questions.

 

[NoDecoBob]

That is because many students have more than one instructor. In that case, the final one is the certifying instructor. All dives must be supervised by an instructor.

Correct, but it is not always easy to find that instructor for confirmation. I can look up any instructor number to verify that the name and number are active in the system, but that is all it will tell me.

See what I mean? You guys don't even have a clue. How am I, as part of the diving public, supposed to know who's feeding me a line of crap and who isn't? Well in my book, that's the agency's responsibility!!

No wait...I should google what the requirements are first, before I call bull**** on a misinformed OWSI or MSDT. And I should throw away my log book, because keeping one is a waste of ink...anyone can sign one!

it amazes me how so many are willing to state what PADI policy is, yet in the same breath not recognize or respect the certifications/opinions of their colleagues, and divert the responsibility from the agency that issued the policy!! Moreover, this policy is NO WHERE to be found by the diving public...leaving us to rely on so-called PADI professionals.

Heres some food for thought:
if you, as a PADI instructor, can't trust a PADI instructor, why should I?

---------- Post added September 25th, 2014 at 08:31 AM ----------

NOT SO! You contradict this in your very next Post!!

---------- Post added September 25th, 2014 at 08:42 AM ----------

If the instructor had signed off on the dives, then he should have also signed off on the certification, in which case there would be no issues. If someone showed me a sheet of paper showing that an instructor I don't know had done everything but had decided not to sign off on the certification, I would sure be asking questions.

You sir, cannot accurately make that assumption. Instructors quit, get fired, move around, or sometimes just disappear in the middle of a training schedule THEY dictate for their students. If you can't validate and verify an instructor, as an instructor, then what does that say about you and your status as an instructor? Maybe PADI will come out with some new product offerings and marketing plans at DEMA this November...because that's what the agency is about.

 

[boulderjohn]

See what I mean? You guys don't even have a clue. How am I, as part of the diving public, supposed to know who's feeding me a line of crap and who isn't? Well in my book, that's the agency's responsibility!!

No wait...I should google what the requirements are first, before I call bull**** on a misinformed OWSI or MSDT. And I should throw away my log book, because keeping one is a waste of ink...anyone can sign one!

it amazes me how so many are willing to state what PADI policy is, yet in the same breath not recognize or respect the certifications/opinions of their colleagues, and divert the responsibility from the agency that issued the policy!! Moreover, this policy is NO WHERE to be found by the diving public...leaving us to rely on so-called PADI professionals.

Heres some food for thought:
if you, as a PADI instructor, can't trust a PADI instructor, why should I?

---------- Post added September 25th, 2014 at 08:31 AM ----------

NOT SO! You contradict this in your very next Post!!

Let me explain the problems I am having with this rant.

1. As I said, I really don't understand what happened. You will see that others have said the same thing. Maybe we can't read well, but we really aren't sure what happened, so we can only guess in our response. Perhaps you should look at our various guesses and try to explain it more thoroughly.

2. Let me write down the name of a PADI instructor and her number that might appear in a log book: Sabrina Walkenschmidt, #213988. Is that a real person, or did I make it up the name and number? OK, fortunately I can go to the PADI pro check and find out if it is a real name and number. Now, did she write her name and number in the log book, or did I write her name and number in the log book? How can anyone tell from just looking at a log book if anything is legitimate?

3. So how can anyone tell if any certification and instructor signature is legitimate? Because when a student completes a course, the instructor sends the completed certification documents to PADI, either online or in the mail. That is how you get certified! The fact that an instructor supposedly did all the work for instruction and then did not take the last final step, which only takes a few minutes and in most cases is a requirement for getting paid for teaching the class, is highly suspicious.

 

[NoDecoBob]

Let me explain the problems I am having with this rant.

1. As I said, I really don't understand what happened. You will see that others have said the same thing. Maybe we can't read well, but we really aren't sure what happened, so we can only guess in our response. Perhaps you should look at our various guesses and try to explain it more thoroughly.

2. Let me write down the name of a PADI instructor and her number that might appear in a log book: Sabrina Walkenschmidt, #213988. Is that a real person, or did I make it up the name and number? OK, fortunately I can go to the PADI pro check and find out if it is a real name and number. Now, did she write her name and number in the log book, or did I write her name and number in the log book? How can anyone tell from just looking at a log book if anything is legitimate?

3. So how can anyone tell if any certification and instructor signature is legitimate? Because when a student completes a course, the instructor sends the completed certification documents to PADI, either online or in the mail. That is how you get certified! The fact that an instructor supposedly did all the work for instruction and then did not take the last final step, which only takes a few minutes and in most cases is a requirement for getting paid for teaching the class, is highly suspicious.

i feel ya John. Do you see the issues that this PADI policy poses to the diving public???

Its a customer service issue. I'm a customer.

And in regards to #3 (in my personal experience) it takes 15 minutes to review KRs. If I'm at the dive site, at your invitation, and am willing to re-review my KRs, and take a couple of dives with you to demonstrate that I have completed/learned/obtained the skills you are suspect of, and have PAID the tuition for the class, (and paid for another pic card) through the shop that you teach at, why would you NOT finalize the certification?

Now, do you feel me? Seems to be a lot of buck passing between the agency, and its instructors and sponsored shops...where the confusion is at the customer's expense.

im done PADI bashing...but I will die defending my position until the issues are addressed and the situation changes.

 

[boulderjohn]

i feel ya John. Do you see the issues that this PADI policy poses to the diving public???

What specific PADI policy are you talking about?

Its a customer service issue. I'm a customer.

And in regards to #3 (in my personal experience) it takes 15 minutes to review KRs. If I'm at the dive site, at your invitation, and am willing to re-review my KRs, and take a couple of dives with you to demonstrate that I have completed/learned/obtained the skills you are suspect of, and have PAID the tuition for the class, (and paid for another pic card) through the shop that you teach at, why would you NOT finalize the certification?

Again, it seems to me that you do have a customer service issue, but that issue is with the way the shop handled you as a customer. I don't see what the existing PADI policy has to do with it. If the shop told you they could do something that they could not in fact do, then it seems to me that they messed up.

Now, do you feel me? Seems to be a lot of buck passing between the agency, and its instructors and sponsored shops...where the confusion is at the customer's expense.

I don't see that the agency was involved in any way with this issue. Have you contacted them at all?

If you do contact them, I bet they will be very interested in learning why an instructor would do all your knowledge reviews, sign off on all your dives, and yet not issue a certification. In fact, I bet you would find that if all of this is true, then you would not have had to go to the local shop and pay them a dime. All you would have had to do is contact PADI, tell them what happened in Roatan, and have them do an investigation leading to the issuance of your certification.

If you do contact them, I believe they will tell you that the instructor who told you he could sign her off as promised was mistaken. That is not buck passing. That is a clear statement of a policy that has been in effect for nearly 50 years.

 

[TMHeimer]

University standards for what prospective teachers will teach are also nowhere to be found (at least easily or practically) by the general public. In fact if you are a student in public school you just assume teachers are following the rules set down. Sometimes this doesn't happen. It's unlikely you could fault the Univ. or Board of Ed (the "agencies"?) for a teacher messing up.

 

[EFX]

Let me explain the problems I am having with this rant.

1. As I said, I really don't understand what happened.

Of course you don't understand what happened. None of us understand what happened. NoDecoBob doesn't understand what happened and probably doesn't want to understand because it's a RANT!

How 'bout you, NoDecoBob, ask your girlfriend if she got her PADI AOW card. Maybe she has it and forgot to tell you.

See what I mean? You guys don't even have a clue.

We don't have a clue because you don't provide enough information. What happened in Roaton and what did that instructor say/do/promise and how many dives were signed off? Did he send in the paperwork or did he not? How is knowing the PADI policy going to help you any more than calling/e-mailing the Roaton instructor?

 

[pdhenry]

If you do contact them, I believe they will tell you that the instructor who told you he could sign her off as promised was mistaken. That is not buck passing. That is a clear statement of a policy that has been in effect for nearly 50 years.

What specific PADI policy are you talking about?

 

[boulderjohn]

What specific PADI policy are you talking about?

You have to be the instructor supervising the dives to sign the certification.