Why aren't more people taking up scuba diving?

[fire_diver]

...please refer to the Monty Python skit at the very beginning of this thread.


RE

LDS OWNER: "Oh, sure. You can always rent gear… if you want to die. This stuff is life-support equipment! And very delicate, too! Rental gear is usually 25yrs old, stored in a trash bin, and is only serviced by drunken chimpanzees after someone dies while using it. Besides, rental gear will be very different than what we use here in class… see these square buttons? [Points to LPI attached to a BCD] These square buttons could well be round buttons on rental gear! See what I’m getting at? You’d really be in quite the pickle then, wouldn’t you? Quite the pickle indeed!"

No matter how hard I try, I can't read that without saying the lines in their voices. :banana:

 

[boulderjohn]

As I pointed out in my original post Ray...the store, its policies, and instructor staff share the responsibility.
The point I've tried to make here, and seem to have failed so miserably at, is that the business model that these stores and staff members operate under, by direction of PADI, result in these business practices.

Sorry, PADI does not dictate store polices like that. IN fact, they are now sending out an annual notice reminding stores of that fact. The latest version of the liability waiver states that as well. Your beef is with the shop, not PADI.

Now, let's look at your beef:

My girlfriend (looking to obtain her AOW - and has more dives than you were required to have when you started your DM program) showed that she had completed her KR's, showed her dive log book where a PADI instructor had signed off on 5 specialty dives required to obtain AOW (on a trip to Roatan 3 weeks ago), and paid tuition for the AOW class at said sporting goods store, spoke to an instructor that took her pic card and student folder and told her to come to a lake over 100 miles away during the weekend, and he would do a couple of dives with her and review her KR's with her and call her AOW certified. So after the expense of securing a hotel room by the lake, and making sure I had (4) full 80's in the trunk to haul down there, we show up on Saturday morning to get these dives in...just to be approached by so-called instructor from your illustrious association and told that the other instructors he was there with didn't think (obviously) that it was a good idea to do it this way, as anyone could sign a log book.

I honestly am not sure I understand this, and I am willing to be corrected. It sounds as if your girlfriend went to Roatan where a PADI instructor signed off on the knowledge reviews and dives required for AOW. If so, why didn't that instructor certify her?

According to PADI policy, the certifying instructor has to be someone who supervised those dives. As I understand your description, someone at that shop made the mistake of saying he would certify her without anything more than an obscure signature from someone unknown indicating she had done something. That person should have known better than to make that promise, because if that was all it took to get a certification, I could get any certification I wanted from any agency by this afternoon. I think you have a legitimate beef with the guy who did that. I also wonder about the instructor who did everything for the AOW except send in the certification document.

 

[EFX]

NoDecoBob, I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience. I would be upset too. Boulderjohn brings up some good points. I would follow up with that Roatan instructor and ask about your girlfriend's AOW status. You mentioned she completed the course 3 weeks ago which isn't that long ago. It just might be taking longer than usual since it is overseas. You can also call or e-mail PADI and ask if she's already certified. Maybe the card got lost or PADI dropped the ball. Just because of one bad shop or instructor don't throw the baby out with the bath water!

 

[RJP]

Agency's don't train anyone... instructors/stores do.

Best regards,

Ray Purkis

 

[TMHeimer]

Mr Heimer...I do not believe I was "overboard". Let me tell you the reason for my rant...
I attended a PADI "Pro Night" at said sporting goods store. I also took 4 friends with me...2 that wanted to gain certification, and 2 that were looking to continue their dive education. You couldn't swing a dead cat in the place without hitting an OWSI...we got the opportunity to speak with several. My girlfriend (looking to obtain her AOW - and has more dives than you were required to have when you started your DM program) showed that she had completed her KR's, showed her dive log book where a PADI instructor had signed off on 5 specialty dives required to obtain AOW (on a trip to Roatan 3 weeks ago), and paid tuition for the AOW class at said sporting goods store, spoke to an instructor that took her pic card and student folder and told her to come to a lake over 100 miles away during the weekend, and he would do a couple of dives with her and review her KR's with her and call her AOW certified. So after the expense of securing a hotel room by the lake, and making sure I had (4) full 80's in the trunk to haul down there, we show up on Saturday morning to get these dives in...just to be approached by so-called instructor from your illustrious association and told that the other instructors he was there with didn't think (obviously) that it was a good idea to do it this way, as anyone could sign a log book. He asked that she come back with a form to verify the PADI Instructor. When I asked him what form, he said the previous instructor would know what was needed.

This, Mr. PADI DiveMaster, is bull****. AS an OWSI you should know what you're going to do before you suggest that someone go to any expense to meet your criteria, and if you can't then you keep your so-called professional mouth shut.

We dived that day. I told my girlfriend that in the rescue course, should she ever decide to take it from PADI, she'd learn to recognize diver stress...I was a good example that day. You know what the #1 cause of diver stress is? PADI Instructors.

We went back to said sporting goods giant yesterday. She got her money back for the tuition paid on Pro Night, and I got a refund for the DM course, and the 5 specialty courses (and associated collateral) that I paid for that night (over $1000). And by the way...the reason I bought the 5 specialty courses is because some OWSI told me that they were required in order to complete the DM program. Guess what...they're not. Now why would you suppose an OWSI would tell me they were? Ignorance or used car salesman tactics? You decide...I won't be getting any more PADI certs.

That's my experience.

Well, as others stated, you really got the shaft in more than one way. But as RJP said, instructors and shops run the show, not agencies. None of our many instructors has ever to my knowledge behaved in this manner. There have been posts similar to yours (although yours was extreme for sure) complaining of BS from other shops and agencies as well.

I know one should be able to trust an instructor about what the requirements are. On the other hand, you actually paid for 5 specialty certs. over $1K without googling DM requirements? Is it possible the instructor was actually talking about the MSD cert. that does require the 5 specialties?

 

[boulderjohn]

Well, as others stated, you really got the shaft in more than one way. But as RJP said, instructors and shops run the show, not agencies. None of our many instructors has ever to my knowledge behaved in this manner. There have been posts similar to yours (although yours was extreme for sure) complaining of BS from other shops and agencies as well.

I know one should be able to trust an instructor about what the requirements are. On the other hand, you actually paid for 5 specialty certs. over $1K without googling DM requirements? Is it possible the instructor was actually talking about the MSD cert. that does require the 5 specialties?

I am guessing he misused the term "specialty." He referred to knowledge reviews in relation to the term, so I assumed he meant "adventure dives" when he said "specialty." As I said in my reply, I was not really clear on what actually happened. It sounded like the girlfriend was trying to get someone local to sign off on the AOW certification because of work she did elsewhere with a different instructor. If I misunderstood, I am sorry.

 

[RJP]

No matter how hard I try, I can't read that without saying the lines in their voices. :banana:

I wrote it in their voices...

:d

 

[fire_diver]

I wrote it in their voices...

:d

Oh..... that explains it!


and now for something completely different,

 

[pdhenry]

According to PADI policy, the certifying instructor has to be someone who supervised those dives.

The PADI AOW Course Evaluation survey I took today only asked if the certifying instructor supervised the final dive.

As I understand your description, someone at that shop made the mistake of saying he would certify her without anything more than an obscure signature from someone unknown indicating she had done something. That person should have known better than to make that promise, because if that was all it took to get a certification, I could get any certification I wanted from any agency by this afternoon. I think you have a legitimate beef with the guy who did that.

For every training dive I've taken with an instructor, the instructor has appended his signature with his PADI instructor ID number. I wouldn't call this obscure unless you don't have any faith in the PDADI certification process.

I also wonder about the instructor who did everything for the AOW except send in the certification document.

Yeah, that doesn't make sense to me either. Maybe I'd look at the dates of the adventure dives vs. the dates on teh KR signatures.

 

[boulderjohn]

The PADI AOW Course Evaluation survey I took today only asked if the certifying instructor supervised the final dive.

That is because many students have more than one instructor. In that case, the final one is the certifying instructor. All dives must be supervised by an instructor.

For every training dive I've taken with an instructor, the instructor has appended his signature with his PADI instructor ID number. I wouldn't call this obscure unless you don't have any faith in the PDADI certification process.

Correct, but it is not always easy to find that instructor for confirmation. I can look up any instructor number to verify that the name and number are active in the system, but that is all it will tell me.