Why are we so mean?

[Jax]

Perhaps we should move away from the thread in question and stop making DevonDiver be defensive . . . TSandM brought up a good point about meaness.

When I first discovered SB, it was because I was searching for specific answers on diving questions. SB came up often enough, I started lurking, but not seriously.

Once I came on board to ask questions, I found people to be VERY mean. I ask a question, I got an answer, and then I asked why?


You would have thought I dared question the decision of the SCOTUS!! The nasty-responses were incredible. EDIT: and with one exception, this was not in the technical forums.

Fortunately, I could separate the nuggets of gold from the dross . . . but any lessor ego would have vacated a long time ago. So, why DO you have to be so mean?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'm pretty sure there has been a very concerted effort at the top of GUE to get the instructor corps a bit more professional, and to weed out some of the attitudes that it used to foster.

Some of that doesn't seem to filter down to all the students, though, and some of them still don't seem to have gotten the memo that its not okay any more to be elitist and to look down on recreational divers.

A bit of that does seem to be that there's still quite a few instructors that tear down students or beat on them and then when they get out of the course there seems to be some psychological transference as the students want to go beat on recreational divers after the course. A lot of the better GUE instructors that I've had, haven't needed to do that and haven't had any of the ego chip-on-shoulder stuff where they need to try to prove anything to their students.

This isn't unique to DIR. I've been personally harrassed on multiple occasions by old-timers who see me in a hogarthian rig and assume that I must be "one of those damn DIR people".

Of course ... the joke's on them ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Jax]

Not unique to old-timers, either. When I went to ITK, my insta-buddy said, "Oooh, you must be an advanced diver, you have a long hose."


How about, some of this comes from the insecurity of the individuals, who have to use a "pack" mentality to put others down to make themselves feel better about themselves?

 

[DevonDiver]

Yes, I hate those haters who operate in a pack. What a bunch of losers.

I feel better for having said that.

 

[Dan G]

One way to get someone to learn without them getting defensive or feeling 'flamed' (to use the parlance of our times) is to ask a question rather than make a statement. For example, ask "Tell me about that inflator hose. Have you found it to get in the way of...?" This way the student/ reader is engaged in the learning process because they are answering a question for themselves and owning their new knowledge. Another sentence starter is, "I notice that..." and then end with a question. "I notice" passes no judgement and allows the student/ reader to reflect rather than being told the 'right answer.'

Regardless of the fact that you already know the answer, and you know where the reader needs to go in their thinking, it gets them there faster and with a deeper understanding than if you just tell them.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Not unique to old-timers, either.

This is true ... I was simply relating my own experiences. But I don't seem to fit in anybody's "club" ... and have received it from both sides. A few years ago I spent a year teaching NAUI courses at our local GUE shop. One of my least memorable moments came when the shop manager ... in my presence ... told one of my students to stop wasting his time taking NAUI classes ... if he wanted to learn something useful, sign up for a GUE course.

How about, some of this comes from the insecurity of the individuals, who have to use a "pack" mentality to put others down to make themselves feel better about themselves?

People tend to like to have clubs to identify with ... I think perhaps we're evolved from herd animals, and still have some of that instinct.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I just looked at that thread and frankly did not see any comments BY ANYONE, including the op that were mean, defensive, or over the top. I did see a number of observations from EVERYONE that were clear, concise, and personal choice. Maybe I'm too tolerant and thick skinned to be easily offended by those kinds of comments. BTW I did just order a new Zeagle wing to replace the smaller one for my express tech with the short hose and plain elbow. So I'm cool right? If not, fire away as to why I will die.

 

[Jax]

That's what I like about you, Bob - you are a club of one, and stand firm on your principles and convictions.

 

[jar546]

Just read the thread and can offer another unsolicited opinion.

OP seemed and remained excited about his new rig.
Quick observation about hose length made immediately
OP responded by stating it is a good length for him when he is wearing it. (he may have broad shoulders and a big chest)

I honestly must say however that Devon, you were a little cocky and certainly out of character from what I normally see you post and moderate. Just a tad, but that is how I perceived it. Intention and perception are 2 different things however. I think you could have offered specific advice (even though not asked for) to clarify where the inflator should land.

Again, just my personal, humble, unsolicited opinion.

 

[DiverLaura]

Are you guys for real? If I were a new to tech diving individual and had posted that picture in a NON-DIR tech diving section, i believe many people WOULD have taken all the commentary (typed and as images) in a negative way.

Ya, maybe folks are pretty thick skinned here, but stop for a second and look at it from the uninitiated persons point of view. They go spend Thousands of dollars on some kit. It comes from the manufacturer with an inflator that is not exactly how a certain sect likes it. He's taking a course from an instructor who likely isn't 'approved' by the same said sect (and Bob, i totally feel for you, that simply sucks) and likely got gear that he saw his instructor wearing. The person is obviously excited about getting into tech diving...

And no, it don't think its all simply 'old skool' folks who do stuff like that. In fact, the old skool folks i know would NEVER had posted snarky commentary... They would have just been happy to see another tech diver making their way through the stream of recreational divers and think "ok, gear looks like it could take some improvement, too bad the other mfg.'s haven't gotten on board and standardized all gear to be a perfect HOG style kit, maybe if i invite them out for a dive i can lead by example with my kit when they ask "why" at my long hose, shorter inflator, etc.." Simply by virtue of the gear having being made and sold, the guy who bought it is going to wonder if we are all just a bunch of asshats... "gee, they are hammering on my inflator but if <insert company here> make them that way, why the fuss"

Again, guy goes and buys boatload of expensive gear, comes here, gets his picture hammered on by DIR leaning folks, and in fact the criticism was barely constructive, nothing on some of the more basic principle stuff (i.e. plastic quick release) that _could_ have been viewed as more constructive (and possibly a safety concern). That is exactly what we are talking about here. Where were y'all when he was doing gear selection?

its not the guys fault. the industry has no standardization, many mfg.'s are just looking for ways to make $$ and see tech diving as a profitable group. New to tech (just like new to diving) don't know what they don't know. They just see shiny expensive scuba gear. And some folks here are assuming that what is good for us is good for them. If someone is in an area with no GUE/DIR leaning instructor and shows up head to toe decked out in a HOG rig on their first day, i'm gonna guess they would catch some flack the OTHER direction, simply out of rebound for the years of arsehole attitude that has pervaded. let em get through their class and then if you really want to put in the effort, start diving with them and 'fix' them to your liking.

Lead by example folks. you want people, new divers, old divers, etc.. to dive in HOG rigs and take an interest in GUE/UTD/DIR style diving, TAKE it to the BEACH! Go diving on fun easy dives at heavily dove local sites... GO DIVE A SINGLE TANK KIT and see how many more new to diving and GUE curious folks come up and start asking about your kit! Show them a beautiful team diving example... NEVER ever ever diss how they are currently diving or look down your nose at their split fins and jacket BCD. Its not their fault the industry sold them that stuff....