Why are steel tanks so expensive in the US

[Paul Evans]

At that price, the steel tanks are I guess about 25% cheaper than in the US.

If AL tanks are more expensive than that, that's really expensive!! AL80's here cost $150, which comes to 80 pounds. By shopping around you can get it for less, maybe less than $120 (65 pounds)!

Which means that yes, the steel tanks are more expensive in the US than in the UK, but the AL tank prices are exorbitant in the UK whereas they are dirt cheap in the US.

Oh Yes

 

[nwdiver2]

I think its supply and demand, steel went out of favour in North America in the 70s and Al tanks were the way to go, now some people want steel but not enough to move the price down. In Europe steel never went out of favour so it has remained low where as Al never caught on the way it did over here so it has remained high.

Everybody buy steel and the price will come down after the manufacturing companies and LSDs gouge for a couple of years. The price of steel issue doesn’t hold as the $6-10 cost doesn’t make up for the high price it just sounds like a good reason at the LSD.

Buy steel and help out the next generation of divers.

 

[yknot]

Regarding welding bottles. I'd guess and this only a guess, that commercial gas bottles (of which I own ~6) are built heavier for long term service in demanding applications. Welding shops are typically rough places, construction sites are worse. I know my 244 cuft argon bottles are plenty heavy ~ 160 lbs.

Is a "lighter" weight scuba bottle more costly to make? Not sure but it's possible if methods and tolerances are closer.

I can say that all metals and particularly Stainless and mild steel have shot up in cost. SS is 2x currently from the price last September.

What is driving this? The war, the demand in China and the weakness of the US dollar.

I did have occasion to tour the Norris Industry plant here in LA a couple years ago before they closed. They made two things..... high pressure gas bottles and artillery shells. Same basic processes involved, deep drawing with jumbo presses.

Here again I'm speculating, but it would not surprise me to learn that both press capacity and the steel required is flowing to the war effort and not scuba.


Regards,




Tobin George

What did your welding bottles cost? My point is, if these are even more heavy duty and long term reliable than scuba tanks, then they should cost more. You also can probably buy welding tanks from a more competitive market than scuba. What is probably driving the steel market more than anything are some of the protectionist measures our gov. has added to fight China's tendency to dump subsidized steel on our market. What do the Faber steel tanks cost in Europe? My OMS steel is in fact a Faber and I think they are made in Italy, which would sort of negate the steel price argument (China still has to sell their cheap steel somewhere).

 

[tedwhiteva]

How much are they in England? I may get a couple and bring them back - can I stuff two of them in a bag for a 70 pound checked in bag - I wonder.

Make sure they have a DOT stamp!

 

[cool_hardware52]

What did your welding bottles cost? My point is, if these are even more heavy duty and long term reliable than scuba tanks, then they should cost more. You also can probably buy welding tanks from a more competitive market than scuba. What is probably driving the steel market more than anything are some of the protectionist measures our gov. has added to fight China's tendency to dump subsidized steel on our market. What do the Faber steel tanks cost in Europe? My OMS steel is in fact a Faber and I think they are made in Italy, which would sort of negate the steel price argument (China still has to sell their cheap steel somewhere).

Ynot,

Currently it's not dumping of foreign steel, it's demand in China that's keeping their steel in china.

President Bush recently canceled the tariffs on steel, as they were hurting as many steel users.

Dumping is not currently a problem.


Regards,


Tobin George

 

[yknot]

Ynot,

Currently it's not dumping of foreign steel, it's demand in China that's keeping their steel in china.

President Bush recently canceled the tariffs on steel, as they were hurting as many steel users.

Dumping is not currently a problem.


Regards,


Tobin George

Without starting an economic rant, steel prices won't respond to tariff changes overnight anyway. Alot of China's internal steel needs are driven by their shift to a more advanced manufacturing base. No need to dump raw steel when you can dump finished steel parts. If there was really a big demand for steel scuba tanks, than China would be making them and importing them already at a fraction of the cost of what we have here now.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Without starting an economic rant, steel prices won't respond to tariff changes overnight anyway. Alot of China's internal steel needs are driven by their shift to a more advanced manufacturing base. No need to dump raw steel when you can dump finished steel parts. If there was really a big demand for steel scuba tanks, than China would be making them and importing them already at a fraction of the cost of what we have here now.

I fully agree with that statement.

Remember that with the growth in china, buildings, bridges, factories etc, much of the steel now produced in china stays in china. This is a fairly recent developement.

This growth has a created a world wide shortage of other materials such as portland cement.

Shortages and dumping excess capacities are polar opposites.

Regards,


Tobin George

 

[yknot]

I fully agree with that statement.

Remember that with the growth in china, buildings, bridges, factories etc, much of the steel now produced in china stays in china. This is a fairly recent developement.

This growth has a created a world wide shortage of other materials such as portland cement.

Shortages and dumping excess capacities are polar opposites.

Regards,


Tobin George

I could be misapplying the concept of dumping also. The fact is that I can't think of a single thing we in the US can compete on vs China when the determining factor is cost. I don't know of anyone else that can work that cheaply. I also don't think that the Chinese can afford to buy raw materials from the world market at fair market prices for their internal expansion needs. We still haven't really figured out why steel scuba tanks are so expensive, except for the fact that we will obviously pay what they cost here. Kind of like buying a SS screw from a regular hardware store vs a marine hardware store.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I could be misapplying the concept of dumping also. The fact is that I can't think of a single thing we in the US can compete on vs China when the determining factor is cost. I don't know of anyone else that can work that cheaply. I also don't think that the Chinese can afford to buy raw materials from the world market at fair market prices for their internal expansion needs. We still haven't really figured out why steel scuba tanks are so expensive, except for the fact that we will obviously pay what they cost here. Kind of like buying a SS screw from a regular hardware store vs a marine hardware store.

My guess is that the relative costs of steel tanks vs AL in the US is a combination of factors. Supply and demand, the manner of distribution, and the current world prices of certain commodities.

I due agree that the US, and the West in general face great difficulties when competing with China or India, especially when the goods have a high labor content.

The Japanese model of rising standards of living rapidly raising domestic labor rates is not likely to happen in china, at least not soon, a billion + people most of whom have not yet seen any increase in living standards will take several generations to absorb.

India is a little different, as some outsourcing companies are already reporting 200-300% increases in wages.

China does have a vulnerability, but it's likely to be our children or grandchildren that witness it. The "one child" edict of the Chinese government is going to cause a true distortion in the age demographics in the next 40-60 years.

I've strayed too far from scuba, and will now shut up.


Tobin

 

[RockyWelch]

Their next shipment will not be until December