DIR- GUE Why are non-GUE divers so interested in what GUE does?

[berndo]

None of us are reliant on our buddy. Period. I can (and god knows I have) manage any issue by myself.

Having a buddy makes it easier and better.

Can't reply, for some reason my posts are being restricted or censored now.

 

[ginti]

Do the GUE instructors act as instructors/educators or just concentrate on being a "Pass/No Pass" filters?

In theory, they should concentrate on instructions and education. There is an anonymous survey at the end of each course, and students evaluate instructors on several points, including this one. From my experience, all instructors I know focus on education/instruction and give feedback even if you pass the course with stellar performances (there is always some margin to improve, right?).

There are some stories about instructors focusing on "pass/no pass," but I do not have any insights, so I cannot speak. Anyway, reports of bad instructors are everywhere and in any agency - because no agency can have control 100% of their instructors.

NOTE: When the failure rate in any given course is high or even intermediate, this is a reflection on the agency and instructor NOT on the students. It isn't something to boast about by the instructor and agency. The instructor failed the students.

Agree; but here there is a discussion about provisional vs. failure. For most people, provisional is not failure, some others consider it a failure.

The pass rate at advanced courses is fair, according to my experience (I have never looked at statistics). With fundies, it tends to be lower; there are statistics somewhere here in the forum. But failure is very rare, even at fundies.

 

[BlueTrin]

Do the GUE instructors act as instructors/educators or just concentrate on being a "Pass/No Pass" filters? As a neutral observer here, I come away from monitoring the talk about "failure" of people in GUE courses with the impression that GUE instructors and agency thrive and want people to fail rather than help and guide students to learn and succeed. This is the recurrent theme in ALL the posts I have been reading and monitoring related to GUE.

NOTE: When the failure rate in any given course is high or even intermediate, this is a reflection on the agency and instructor NOT on the students. It isn't something to boast about by the instructor and agency. The instructor failed the students.

I think actually most people do not fail but get a provisional which is not a hard fail but you get points to work and fix then you can just pass the class later when you are ready?

If you are unsure to pass but you are unlikely to fail more than marginally, you can book extra days with the instructor and it will be a lot leas likely for you to fail (obviously you need to find a teammate who would do the same thing)

 

[BoltSnap]

(obviously you need to find a teammate who would do the same thing)

You can't do a "one on one" remedial training with GUE instructors?

 

[BlueTrin]

You can't do a "one on one" remedial training with GUE instructors?

If your failures are solo skills I imagine you can, but I found that in the second class I did with GUE, some of the hardest skills were teamwork related.

 

[LiteHedded]

Do the GUE instructors act as instructors/educators or just concentrate on being a "Pass/No Pass" filters? As a neutral observer here, I come away from monitoring the talk about "failure" of people in GUE courses with the impression that GUE instructors and agency thrive and want people to fail rather than help and guide students to learn and succeed. This is the recurrent theme in ALL the posts I have been reading and monitoring related to GUE.

NOTE: When the failure rate in any given course is high or even intermediate, this is a reflection on the agency and instructor NOT on the students. It isn't something to boast about by the instructor and agency. The instructor failed the students.

There’s a ton of instruction. These classes are like a week long

 

[RTodd]

Oh. You can do that. I did not take tech 1 and went straight to tech 2. You need to be pretty ******* good though because if you are not, you ruin the class for others, which as you noted is very very expensive

For this reason it is exceedingly rare

Same. My only GUE card is Tech 2. I was taught side mount cave from a GUE instructor before it was a course because I don’t care about a card. GUE isn’t nearly as rigid as the detractors want to make it out to be. Fundamentals only exists because too few students had the necessary basic skills to make it through tech 1 or cave 1. The steps are there because for the majority they need them.

 

[LiteHedded]

Same. My only GUE card is Tech 2. I was taught side mount cave from a GUE instructor before it was a course because I don’t care about a card. GUE isn’t nearly as rigid as the detractors want to make it out to be. Fundamentals only exists because too few students had the necessary basic skills to make it through tech 1 or cave 1. The steps are there because for the majority they need them.

When you lay out that much cash for a class you expect that you aren’t going to get saddled with someone that is totally lost because it really can cause you to fail as well

 

[KevinNM]

There’s a ton of instruction. These classes are like a week long

Well, it varies by instructor. A lot. Typically newer instructors schedule more days. I asked an IE about the variance and he said something to the effect that as you become a better/more experienced instructor you figure out how to do it faster. But I think it also goes into experienced instructors knowing when there isn’t enough time to fix some things and finish the class on time.

 

[KevinNM]

Same. My only GUE card is Tech 2. I was taught side mount cave from a GUE instructor before it was a course because I don’t care about a card. GUE isn’t nearly as rigid as the detractors want to make it out to be. Fundamentals only exists because too few students had the necessary basic skills to make it through tech 1 or cave 1. The steps are there because for the majority they need them.

IIRC you have to test out in person with a GUE instructor examiner and demonstrate that you can do all the tasks needed for entry into that class to the standard expected of graduates of the classes you are skipping. Based on the class I took from an IE, that isn’t going to be possible unless you are really a rock solid tech diver with no stupid habits.