DIR- GUE Why are non-GUE divers so interested in what GUE does?

[ScubaWithTurk]

On my OC trimix course in 1999 my instructor had smokers excluded from his courses. IANTD. It's not just a GUE thing and has been around a long time.

I never said it was only a GUE thing. I just stated the facts as they relate to me and OP's question.

I don't want to get to deep into the smoking thing as it was one reason I posted, not the only reason but seems to be the one everyone is focusing on...so let me ask this..smoking is not allowed but that basically refers to only cigarettes right? I know GUE instructors that smoke cigars so how is that ok?

Or maybe we should look at alcohol. Moderate alcohol consumption is known to shrink areas of the brain associated with learning and development. It is also a depressant which slows down reaction times. Studies also suggest that you are at higher risk of injury if you are a regular drinker Maybe GUE should look to exclude anyone who consumes alcohol as well since physical fitness is so highly touted. Just a thought when considering safety.

I think it is perfectly acceptable to want to expand ones knowledge but not drink the Kool-Aid. As stated, I read all kinds of blogs and articles about diving, diving medicine and studies. I also regularly check out new gear that comes out so I can be as informed as possible for my own diving (mostly OC SM and Mod 2 CCR diving with Mod 3 coming this year) as well as for my students who are looking to me for advice. In order to do this, I go to TDI and read their blogs, I have taken the HFID micro-course and read any and all HFID posts and blogs that I can get my hands on. I scour the net for content.

I am guessing this thirst for knowledge is why many "lurk" or read about GUE as well as other organizations. I will never take a GUE course as I don't feel it is necessary for my development but I have nothing against those who decide to go that route. At the end of the day, it is about promoting diving in a safe manner and not about "my agency is better than yours"

 

[ScubaWithTurk]

Come on, man. One man expressing his frustrations, in a crass tone, over a tendency of new "converts" to preach too much (with limited knowledge), instead of listening is turned into "oppression of free speech" by a community. I would say my description is much more fair than ScubaWithTurk's.

First of all, I said the "suppression of free speech" not the oppression of it. I also never once said it was suppression by the entire GUE "community" I specifically said "Statements like this is why many will never go over to GUE. " That does not mean the entire GUE community feels the same way. But it is not the first time I have heard statements that are extremist in nature from GUE divers and instructors. To be fair, I have heard some even worse things from UTD ITs and IEs but this is a thread about GUE which is why I focused on that organization, you know, in order to stay on topic.

 

[steinbil]

First of all, I said the "suppression of free speech" not the oppression of it. I also never once said it was suppression by the entire GUE "community" I specifically said "Statements like this is why many will never go over to GUE. " That does not mean the entire GUE community feels the same way. But it is not the first time I have heard statements that are extremist in nature from GUE divers and instructors. To be fair, I have heard some even worse things from UTD ITs and IEs but this is a thread about GUE which is why I focused on that organization, you know, in order to stay on topic.

If there was group of people from a community you were part of that made extremist statements (out of over-zealousness and lack of perspective/knowledge/experience) to make your community look bad. Would it then be an extremist statement if you expressed that said group should refrain from voicing their extremism?

 

[Lorenzoid]

@ScubaWithTurk , I would not assume smoking cigars is okay with GUE just because you know of an instructor or two who do that. There may also be a GUE instructor or two who have dived solo or used a non-standard gas. Who knows. It doesn't mean it's a good idea. And maybe you're right that GUE should look into alcohol consumption; I'm not familiar with the studies you refer to. It seems like a good thing to me that GUE encourages health and physical fitness. It's not like there are GUE police. If someone wants to do something that GUE advises against, so long as the person is open about it with their teammates, each can make their own decisions about who they will dive with. If someone's behavior is judged egregious enough by enough people in the GUE community, they will not find willing teammates, and the "problem" takes care of itself.

Physical health effects aside, unless my life depends on it, I would not want to breathe a reg donated by a smoker. I'd prefer to train with non-smokers in my team.

 

[ScubaWithTurk]

@ScubaWithTurk , I would not assume smoking cigars is okay with GUE just because you know of an instructor or two who do that. There may also be a GUE instructor or two who have dived solo or used a non-standard gas. Who knows. It doesn't mean it's a good idea. And maybe you're right that GUE should look into alcohol consumption; I'm not familiar with the studies you refer to. It seems like a good thing to me that GUE encourages health and physical fitness. It's not like there are GUE police. If someone wants to do something that GUE advises against, so long as the person is open about it with their teammates, each can make their own decisions about who they will dive with. If someone's behavior is judged egregious enough by enough people in the GUE community, they will not find willing teammates, and the "problem" takes care of itself.

Physical health effects aside, unless my life depends on it, I would not want to breathe a reg donated by a smoker. I'd prefer to train with non-smokers in my team.

Maybe I wasn't clear and I if not, I apologize. I never meant to assume that cigars are ok. I was generally curious and only stated that I know some that do smoke them because...well, I do. It was not meant to state because they smoke them, it must be ok.. Again, I apologize for any confusion the post may have brought up.

As for physical fitness, I am quite fit myself. I have no problem with GUE wanting people (their divers) to be more fit than say the average diver.

Not sure how taking a reg from a smoker is any different than taking a reg from a non-smoker if we are truly putting physical health effects aside. The reg doesn't taste any different than a reg from a non-smoker. I know this because we have tested it with friends who were ex-smokers and now not only hate the taste or smell from cigarettes but are highly sensitive to it.. They stated that in the water, there was zero difference between my reg and non-smokers reg. Having said that, it is your team and you are free to choose who you dive and train with. For me, I want to dive with a team that I trust, where communication becomes second nature and we all have similar goals when it comes to the dives we do and the dives we want to do. Just my two bar.

 

[ScubaWithTurk]

If there was group of people from a community you were part of that made extremist statements (out of over-zealousness and lack of perspective/knowledge/experience) to make your community look bad. Would it then be an extremist statement if you expressed that said group should refrain from voicing their extremism?

He didn't say that they should refrain from making any statements, he said they should be forced to STFU....that is quite the extreme thing to say. My comment was based off of what they stated...could he have said it better, yes. Then would it have caught my attention? Probably not. But he said what he said. Maybe he should be the one to STFU

 

[steinbil]

He didn't say that they should refrain from making any statements, he said they should be forced to STFU....that is quite the extreme thing to say. My comment was based off of what they stated...could he have said it better, yes. Then would it have caught my attention? Probably not. But he said what he said. Maybe he should be the one to STFU

Yes, the wording was quite harsh. We can agree on that. I did not take it literally. I assumed it was tongue-in-cheek laced with frustration. And I understand the sentiment, and the frustration. So, using the tone of what one person wrote on Scubaboard as a reason for avoiding a community might be taking it a little far, in my opinion. In any case, I'll STFU now

 

[rjack321]

GUE has a decent magazine, with good articles, writers, and visuals. Probably one of the best "scuba" oriented blogs and magazines out there. So why not read it? It's certainly light years ahead of some of the huey, dewey and louie podcasts and youtube channels that might be entertaining for some but
should come with dunce caps.

 

[Doc Harry]

So if you're not GUE trained and you're constantly trying to figure out what and why GUE does something, why?

Coming from a background in Naval Aviation, where everything is standardized for safety, the GUE philosophy caught my attention.

Unfortunately, the GUE promise is ruined by the attitude of abusive instructors. They see training as more of an audition and an opportunity to demonstrate their superiority, rather than an opportunity to train eager students willing and wanting to learn.

Too bad, GUE has a great theoretical philosophy, but it will never be mainstream until they replace their instructors with decent human beings.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

I didn't even begin to read this entire 72 page thread... Just one simple yes or no question. Does GUE 100% support and condone SOLO diving?