DIR- GUE Why are non-GUE divers so interested in what GUE does?

[johndiver999]

The discussion has somewhat ranged off topic. But the basic premise - as I interpreted it was: Why is there interest if you are not going to take the class(es)?

People have answered that pretty well in many posts. I could ask the OP a question as well.

Why do you think that GUE has remained so small, if it provides overwhelming benefits to the recreational community? Perhaps the answer is that it was never intended to be "popular" and it was always envisioned to be elite and exclusionary...?

I think one of the most significant constraints (in recreational diving ) is only diving with a dedicated GUE "team". It is hard enough to find just one or two dedicated and reliable dive buddies, let alone assemble a GUE Team of divers who all agree to always follow a regimented protocol of behaviors and gear configurations.

I'm not criticizing GUE at all, but it just seems like a very significant constraint for recreational divers.

 

[Doby45]

I think the issue is pretty much what @johndiver999 is saying, with a slight twist. I think we have a world of divers these days that do in fact view GUE as "the best". They also are very accustomed to this day and age of buying their certifications. GUE does not simply allow you to buy their agencies certs. You must perform, first and foremost, and you must follow their philosophy. So then it becomes the proverbial "sour grapes", well if I can't have it, it sucks!!

 

[rddvet]

The discussion has somewhat ranged off topic. But the basic premise - as I interpreted it was: Why is there interest if you are not going to take the class(es)?

People have answered that pretty well in many posts. I could ask the OP a question as well.

Why do you think that GUE has remained so small, if it provides overwhelming benefits to the recreational community? Perhaps the answer is that it was never intended to be "popular" and it was always envisioned to be elite and exclusionary...?

I think one of the most significant constraints (in recreational diving ) is only diving with a dedicated GUE "team". It is hard enough to find just one or two dedicated and reliable dive buddies, let alone assemble a GUE Team of divers who all agree to always follow a regimented protocol of behaviors and gear configurations.

I'm not criticizing GUE at all, but it just seems like a very significant constraint for recreational divers.

GUE is not small. Travel outside of the US to do technical diving and you will see a ton more GUE divers. When I go to the Lot Department of France to cave dive I'm surrounded by GUE divers. It's no PADI, but it's also definitely small like PSAI

 

[tursiops]

They also are very accustomed to this day and age of buying their certifications. GUE does not simply allow you to buy their agencies certs.

Nor does any other agency. Individual instructors? Maybe, here and there....certainly not common.

 

[johndiver999]

GUE is not small. Travel outside of the US to do technical diving and you will see a ton more GUE divers. When I go to the Lot Department of France to cave dive I'm surrounded by GUE divers. It's no PADI, but it's also definitely small like PSAI

I was speaking primarily about recreational diving. Perhaps I should have been more clear?

 

[Lorenzoid]

One wonders what happens when a diver with GUE cert.s engages in recreational solo diving of a non-demanding nature (let's say in accordance with solo practices and certified for it), and his old GUE instructor learns of it. What's the response likely to be? Ignore it? Indifferent? Amusement? Critical? Shaming?

In previous threads about GUE's attitude toward solo, I recall a couple of anecdotes being related, but my belief is this kind of situation rarely arises. Someone who simply took Fundies a few years ago and never had any further involvement with GUE is unlikely to run into their old instructor in the first place. And even if they did, the instructor probably does not care what some random former student is now doing. I believe GUE instructors are fully aware that not everyone who completes Fundies is going to continue to dive the GUE way. Indeed, one of the questions on the course evaluation sheet is whether you consider yourself a GUE diver. I'm sure plenty of people answer "no." They went into Fundies with an open mind, but by the end of the course they still didn't feel it was for them. So what?

Now, if instead we were talking about someone who took more advanced GUE courses and became involved in the local GUE community, I doubt that kind of person would have any inclination to dive solo.

But the basic premise - as I interpreted it was: Why is there interest if you are not going to take the class(es)?

I interpreted the original question slightly differently, but I think the difference is significant: Why, if you are interested enough in GUE that you participate in threads about GUE stuff, have you not at least taken Fundies Part 1 and dipped your toe in the water?

I think one of the most significant constraints (in recreational diving ) is only diving with a dedicated GUE "team". It is hard enough to find just one or two dedicated and reliable dive buddies, let alone assemble a GUE Team of divers who all agree to always follow a regimented protocol of behaviors and gear configurations.

In my opinion, in the context of simple rec diving the whole "team diving" thing sometimes gets blown out of proportion. Someone who completed a Fundies class, liked the ideas, but has no intention of further involvement with GUE is likely to adapt the "team" concept. It can simply mean being a good buddy in all the ways that every agency teaches. Personally, I have no problem doing simple rec diving with people who did not take Fundies and/or who do not dive in the GUE gear configuration if I know they adhere to good buddy practices. "Dedicated" and "reliable"--sure. But "GUE Team"? It sounds like more than it need be.

 

[crofrog]

Nor does any other agency. Individual instructors? Maybe, here and there....certainly not common.

I think there are quite a few videos of Padi Tec-Rec classes that show standards violations in them on youtube.

 

[tursiops]

I think there are quite a few videos of Padi Tec-Rec classes that show standards violations in them on youtube.

How is that the agency rather than the instructor? Can you link to any examples?

 

[Esprise Me]

I think there are quite a few videos of Padi Tec-Rec classes that show standards violations in them on youtube.

Are these videos on PADI's official YouTube channel, or...?

 

[Adobo]

The discussion has somewhat ranged off topic. But the basic premise - as I interpreted it was: Why is there interest if you are not going to take the class(es)?

People have answered that pretty well in many posts. I could ask the OP a question as well.

Why do you think that GUE has remained so small, if it provides overwhelming benefits to the recreational community? Perhaps the answer is that it was never intended to be "popular" and it was always envisioned to be elite and exclusionary...?

I think one of the most significant constraints (in recreational diving ) is only diving with a dedicated GUE "team". It is hard enough to find just one or two dedicated and reliable dive buddies, let alone assemble a GUE Team of divers who all agree to always follow a regimented protocol of behaviors and gear configurations.

I'm not criticizing GUE at all, but it just seems like a very significant constraint for recreational divers.

Posts like this wreak to me as opinions based on what a person “thinks based on what he/she read on the internet” vs. what a person knows based on what they know in real life.

First, GUE training was never envisioned to be elite or exclusionary. Plenty of average people who are mediocre divers (including me) have taken GUE classes. Not all become super duper divers (just like I did not become a super duper diver) but most if not all have gotten benefit. All it takes to get into a GUE class is to have money, time and a willingness to listen and learn for a few days.

Second, there is no rule that says one must only dive with their GUE buddies. My dive mentor and eventual tech 1 buddy probably dives as much with non-GUE trained new people as he dives with GUE trained people. That’s how he found me in scubaboard many years ago - he saw a bumbling idiot posting non-sense in the internet and offered to dive with me. I myself have no hang ups with diving with other people who are not GUE trained. The only thing is I don’t like diving with morons (I would hate to dive with someone who is just like me) and the more complex the dive becomes, the more I want to be diving with someone who has similar training, equipment and procedures. I hope we don’t have to argue about why the last sentence makes sense.

I have seen these opinions in scubaboard for over 10 years now. People claiming what GUE /DiR is like and what these divers are like. It’s kind of like a person from Mississippi who has never been, describing what California and Californians are like. It’s all stereotypes.