DIR- GUE Why are non-GUE divers so interested in what GUE does?

[OrcasC205]

What happens if a certified GUE diver does not comply with the GUE "way" and another GUE diver becomes aware of it. Do they file some kind of report...or turn in and rat out the non-compliant diver? Does GUE take away your certification or your "merit badge" or otherwise disavow you from the organization?

No, there are no GUE police that are looking for infractions from every day GUE divers (instructors that are representing GUE may be a different story -- I am not knowledgable about those rules.) The GUE Standards and Procedures even state that those standards apply to all GUE diving activities (emphasis mine), not to all diving activities a person may engage in. What a diver does at non-GUE events and dives is up to them. Of course, everyone is free to make their own decisions about who to dive with at GUE events, so if someone has a reputation for not being a good teammate, they may have trouble finding people willing to dive with them, but that is more of an individual choice than a top-down directive.

Last but not least, I dive mainly just because it's FUN and my hope is that the majority of GUE divers feel the same!!!!

Absolutely. We all have a lot of fun diving together.

 

[Wibble]

And if you’re caught smoking behind the gas shed?

 

[OrcasC205]

And if you’re caught smoking behind the gas shed?

People probably wouldn't think you were very smart if you're messing with an open flame by the gas shed.

 

[ginti]

That's your opinion, you don't know that.

First, I misunderstand the data, then I make up my mind, and lastly, I do not know. I envy your self-confidence

The reality is that, over the years, you'll likely dive with good divers and with bad once. The bad once are a liability. If you think diving with a buddy is inherently safer than solo we have a placebo situation.

I never said what you are saying here. Anyway, I am unsure if we use placebo in the same way. Could you please tell me what is a "placebo situation" for you?

For me, a placebo is something that you think has an effect, and when you use this thing you PERCEIVE this effect, but in reality, it does NOT have any effect and anything you perceive is a trick of your mind.

In the first example Litehedded posted, the victim might still be around if he had planned the buddy dive as if it was solo.

Let's say you are right; it does not change my argument at all.

I am not discussing if solo is better than buddy, or when solo is better than buddy. I am saying that the buddy system is not a placebo. It is totally a different topic.

As I said, having only good buddies on every dive is the ideal situation but not realistic for most people unless you live in Florida maybe and only dive very few people. Many people are useless as buddies when they film or take pictures and in that case they're also placebos.
I used work as an instructor and guide and on many days I would have been much safer by myself.

I disagree with your perspective, but that is my opinion, and it is arguable. And I am not discussing that point here. What is NOT arguable is the part I highlighted in bold. That alone makes the buddy system NOT a placebo, because at least sometimes it has a REAL effect! And that is my point

Again, I am not arguing about my vision of buddy vs. solo here.

BTW: Your friends should really use a check list. That was not a throwaway comment. Not using a checklist and 'more than once' forgetting to open the o2' is nuts. I dive solo sometimes but I sure as hell wouldn't dive with people who don't take stuff like this seriously.

He did use checklists at that time, and he always does. For one reason or another, he went too fast, confident he would not make a mistake. You may call it a bad attitude, but researchers call this "human factors" and agree that even the brightest people in the world may make mistakes. I trust researchers more than people on internet forums usually

 

[AJ]

Notice that 12% of fatalities happened to divers who started the dive alone; now, I cannot say the percentage of dives intended to be solo dives, but I wonder whether it is less than 12%... That would be significant, although not conclusive.

According to these figures 12% of solo divers did'nt make it to the surface alive, apparently 88% of the other fatalities died while starting the dive with a buddy. Would that mean that diving solo is safer than diving with a buddy?

To quote Mark Twain: “There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics”. These figures mean nothing to me. I stand by the fact that a trained self reliant diver is the safest diver and the best buddy. I think the real question is: if a diver is not self reliant, should he/she be diving at all? No matter is there is a buddy present or not?

 

[ginti]

According to these figures 12% of solo divers did'nt make it to the surface alive, apparently 88% of the other fatalities died while starting the dive with a buddy. Would that mean that diving solo is safer than diving with a buddy?

To quote Mark Twain: “There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics”. These figures mean nothing to me. I stand by the fact that a trained self reliant diver is the safest diver and the best buddy. I think the real question is: if a diver is not self reliant, should he/she be diving at all? No matter is there is a buddy present or not?

Aj, read all my posts again, please. I am not saying that solo diving is riskier than buddy diving. I am arguing that the buddy system is not a placebo.

 

[ginti]

According to these figures 12% of solo divers did'nt make it to the surface alive, apparently 88% of the other fatalities died while starting the dive with a buddy. Would that mean that diving solo is safer than diving with a buddy?

By the way, if you read well the post you quoted, I clearly said that results would NOT be conclusive.

 

[MidOH]

I've never had a decent dive buddy. Experienced, or new like me.

So....lol'ing at all that. If I want to use them as redundant air, its 100% on me to keep them in sight.

And Ill likely have to wrestle their reg from their mouth like a James Bond underwater fight scene. Thanks to their POS Air2 thing, and the simple fact that theyve likely never donated a reg, ever.

 

[berndo]

As I mentioned before, diving with your rebreather oxygen closed is something you can prevent when diving with buddies; this happened more than once to some friends.

He did use checklists at that time, and he always does. For one reason or another, he went too fast, confident he would not make a mistake. You may call it a bad attitude, but researchers call this "human factors" and agree that even the brightest people in the world may make mistakes. I trust researchers more than people on internet forums usually

Now it one friend and not friends? And it happened more than once you said. Story is changing. I don't know how you can sit down and do a checklist too fast and miss that no O2 is comming into the system and the you can't hold the set point.
What researchers are you talking about?
There is a big difference between a mistake everbody can make, like getting distracted and forgetting something and than there is like deliberately breaking safety rules or just being sloppy. Swimming over a T is when playing with your camera a mistake, leaving your fins at home is a mistake not checking your rebreathers proper function before getting in the water is an attitute issue. If they don't point this distinction out in human factors, I'd be surprised.

I don't wanna go from one thing to another and get into this 'gue haters' vs 'gue zeolots' debate. I just posted to point out that the data you posted isn't saying what you think or some of your brethren it does. If you think buddy divng is be-all end-all in every situation, even if the buddy stinks, so be it.

Don't just look at numbers, read the reports.

I am not saying that solo diving is riskier than buddy diving.

What? Lol, a gue diver thinks solo diving is not riskier than buddy diving. Can somebody please call this guy's instructor to set him straight, before he tries a crush neopren drysuit!

 

[berndo]

I've never had a decent dive buddy. Experienced, or new like me.

So....lol'ing at all that. If I want to use them as redundant air, its 100% on me to keep them in sight.

Yeah, I find that very hard to believe. I doubt that you're the only good diver in your area. And at under 50 dives I don't think you should be diving alone. I think you should put some effort into finding a few buddies.
Honestly, when you think at 50 dives you're better than everyone else you might be delusional. For real. How does this make any sense in your head that as a new diver you're the only decent diver around?