Who should use a CCR?

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D is only accurate under certain conditions. Remember that on a CCR you are typically diving with a lower setpoint that you would on OC so you may actually have longer deco times.

I.e. MOD for EAN32 is 111 at a pO2 of 1.4. If you do a dive to 111 ft and stay there the whole time, the CCR is 99% going to give you a longer deco time because your pO2 will be set lower *depending on who you are and the conditions etc, between 1.0 and 1.3. This applies as long as you are using an OC pO2 that is above what the setpoint on the breather is, so anyone using best mixes in their nitrox diving isn't going to get a deco advantage.
Where you do get an advantage is where you are diving shallower than the MOD of your gas mix on OC, but still deep enough for it to matter. CCR's are usually set around 1.2 or 1.3 in order to keep the CNS clock ticking relatively slowly. That's between 90/100ft on EAN32. If you are doing a long dive at 80ft, you're probably still going to be on EAN32 because that's what is available, but your pO2 is going to be 1.1. Assuming no helium in the CCR, the CCR is going to be at a higher pO2 which means a lower pN2 which is what the deco algorithms actually care about, and your deco obligation will be shorter. Why? Your CCR will essentially be mixing EAN36 for you where your OC buddies will be on EAN32. Less N2 in your breather, less deco obligation for you.
my understanding on CCR is very limited but i guess theres a tipping point comparing to EAN and MOD - my observation is based on me on 21% OC and buddy on CCR is i alway have more deco time - #doctormike post is what i was getting at
 
my understanding on CCR is very limited but i guess theres a tipping point comparing to EAN and MOD - my observation is based on me on 21% OC and buddy on CCR is i alway have more deco time - #doctormike post is what i was getting at

he had the shorter explanation for my post... The tipping point is when the mix of the CCR is the same as the mix in OC which is typically a bit shallower than the MOD of the OC mix due to the setpoints. If you're diving air, it's going to be pretty exaggerated since the MOD of air is 190ft and you aren't going to be diving anywhere near that deep
 
D is only accurate under certain conditions. Remember that on a CCR you are typically diving with a lower setpoint that you would on OC so you may actually have longer deco times.

I.e. MOD for EAN32 is 111 at a pO2 of 1.4. If you do a dive to 111 ft and stay there the whole time, the CCR is 99% going to give you a longer deco time because your pO2 will be set lower *depending on who you are and the conditions etc, between 1.0 and 1.3. This applies as long as you are using an OC pO2 that is above what the setpoint on the breather is, so anyone using best mixes in their nitrox diving isn't going to get a deco advantage.
Where you do get an advantage is where you are diving shallower than the MOD of your gas mix on OC, but still deep enough for it to matter. CCR's are usually set around 1.2 or 1.3 in order to keep the CNS clock ticking relatively slowly. That's between 90/100ft on EAN32. If you are doing a long dive at 80ft, you're probably still going to be on EAN32 because that's what is available, but your pO2 is going to be 1.1. Assuming no helium in the CCR, the CCR is going to be at a higher pO2 which means a lower pN2 which is what the deco algorithms actually care about, and your deco obligation will be shorter. Why? Your CCR will essentially be mixing EAN36 for you where your OC buddies will be on EAN32. Less N2 in your breather, less deco obligation for you.

In simple terms, if you are on OC and you are doing a square profile dive to your MOD (PPO2 of 1.4) then you will incur less deco obligation than a CCR diver diving doing the same dive with a set point of less than 1.4.

However, if you are varying your depth, your OC PPO2 is varying while the CCR diver can maintain the same set point the entire dive regardless of depth. That gives the edge to the CCR diver in most real world dives.

There is also the matter of deco efficiency.

When it's time to decompress, the OC diver will have to use one or more deco gasses to improve the PPO2 and the deco efficiency, while the CCR diver, if he was diving a 1.2 set point, can stay at 1.2 all the way to the 10 ft stop, and can bump it up higher if he or she desires (up to 1.6 up all the way to 20 ft, and up to 1.3 at 10').

The CCR diver also has more control over the O2 exposure on the dive. On short dives, a PPO2 of 1.3 might make sense, while on longer dives a PPO2 of 1.2 or 1.0 might make more sense. An OC diver has to vary the mix in the tanks ahead of time to accomplish the same thing - and that mix will be constrained by the deepest depth of the dive.
 
Marci and I have found CCR to be very useful even in very shallow caves like Peacock.

For example, rather than doing two dives that are each 2 hours long, we'll do a single dive that is 4 hours long. There are some significant advantages.

1) We only haul stuff to and from the spring once.
2) We have little or no deco with a PPO2 of 1.0, while we'd almost always have some deco on dive 2 when doing it OC with 30%-32%.
3) We only swim the front parts of the cave once. Some sample dives:
a) swim from P1 to the crypt, play around in the side mount line below the crypt, then swim to challenge and play around in the offshoot tunnels up there before exiting.
b) enter at OG and then swim the Martz off shoot, then swim each fork of the distance tunnels.
c) enter at OG and swim to Woody's room and do all the lines in the area before exiting at OG.
d) enter at P1 and swim the water source tunnel well off the map, then come back and swim all the side passages and Ts along the peanut tunnel on the way out.
e) enter at P1 and swim the wishbone to the Crypt, then back up through the dark water tunnel, oslen bypass, back down the peanut side and through the cross under tunnel.

All of those dives could be done OC, but it would require a lot of staged gas, and with no scooters in Peacock, some of them would require some set up dives. Swimming 4 hours while hauling stages is work, while carrying a stage maybe 1000' to position or reposition it is easily done and very enjoyable.

We do use a couple stages, but they are strategically placed and then just repositioned as needed to support the next day's dives. Dive a full week and they are still full and have been carried only a few thousand feet in total.

4) Best of all, with the 4 hour dive plan, we get up late, eat breakfast slowly show up at the spring around 11am, get great parking even on busy weekends as peopel leave for lunch and gas for their afternoon dives, gear up slowly get in the water by noon, get out around 4pm and are done for the day by 5pm. It's turned cave diving back into a relaxing vacation without sacrificing dive time, and the quality of that dive time is higher.

Slightly deeper caves like Ginnie or Little River are where the deco benefits really start to show, allowing longer dives with less deco.

5) CCR also greatly increases the comfort level in tight, silty cave passages and we've found we can go slower and dive cleaner, due to both lack of percolation and the ability to swim very slow in snug spots without sweating the gas plan like we did on OC. CCR gives you lots of time relative to OC. Basically the dive gets turned on the bailout gas limitations but with a couple of strategically placed stages those limits are generous, even without getting into a team bailout situation.

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On the other hand, it's not for everyone and it's not something divers should be getting into until they are very proficient in cave diving. Not just the number of cards, but rather extensive experience on top of those cards. As noted in some of the above items, CCR allows you to get into some places you probably would never go in OC - and that creates the potential for an inadequately experienced diver to get in way over his or her head.

Avoiding that requires not just training and experience, but also the ability to accurately and realistically assess your true ability to dive the conditions you'll encounter and the discipline to veto those dives that exceed your ability, or to turn the dive when you've encountered your real world limits. It also takes significant knowledge to fully understand the rebreather as a system, and to understand its flaws, it's vulnerabilities and understand how to address them when something goes wrong on the dive.

Not everyone who can plop down the cash for a CCR has the knowledge, the skills, or the necessary level of discipline to actually dive the dives they end up doing, and that's where people start dying.
 
I can only think of a few conditions where I'd want CCR. An overhead environment where debris would be disturbed by my bubbles, and if I'm taking photographs where I want to get close to my subject.

I do neither of these things, but if I did, I might consider a re-breather. :D
 
Not at that level of diving but there is one very good reason to dive(or any activity really) with with gear that is overkill for the job, familiarity and practice. Learn the in and outs of your gear easy dives so every activity involving that gear become automatic so we get to the hard stuff it is one less thing you need to think about. You won't hear me make that comment. Now just adding risk to your dive for no reason is bad but if have a CCR or some other dohicky that is needed for some future complex dive I 100% support you tech divers using those skills on the 20' reef or some other relatively 'safe' dive. Adding a little bit of risk negates a much bigger risk latter on when you need to those skills.
 
I wrote a blog entry about this a while back...
When are you ready for a rebreather?

In my own situation, I would continue to use a rebreather if someone told me I could never do a dive deeper than 130', or if I could never go farther than 2000' into a cave. For me, I believe that the following proper assembly and pre-dive procedures lower the risk of total CCR failure to the point where the benefits afforded by available time outweigh it.

My biggest, 'uh oh' moment underwater happened, as a newer wreck, diver when I managed to swim almost the entire length of a 6' piece of steel between my doubles under the manifold. Any turn I tried to make was immediately stopped and it took me what seemed like an eternity to figure the situation out and back out hand over hand, in the dark. My mortality certainly crossed my mind more than once. For me that was the greatest contributor to the way I think about dives to this day.

Since then i've had many silt out situations in wreck diving and cave diving but I could always read my PPO2, knew I had a fresh scrubber and knew I had an intact unit. In some cases I could have simply waited it out until the viz came back. Time always seems to be the one thing you need when the crap hits the fan in some really messy way.
 
I always wanted to do CCR diving and plan to take it up soon! Since CCRs require quite a large initial investment, I was wondering how long does the equipment last? As in... if I were to invest in a particular unit, how many years will I be able to use it before it becomes obsolete or discontinued? How many hours before a major overhaul?
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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