Who hates their White Fusion Dry Suit?

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Hey BubbleTrubble, First of all thank you for your help in the past You have tried to help me here on Scubaboard and you offered sound advise thank you. It is just nothing seems to work.....so tired of spending money, so much time and hours and hours of thinking how I might try to figure out my issues....thank you again.
I asked those questions because I was trying to figure out if operating any drysuit was a problem...or if you had an issue just with the Fusion. It's pretty clear that you're having a problem adjusting to drysuits in general.

Learning how to operate a drysuit takes patience and practice. It also takes proper mentoring or formal instruction (class). Did you take a drysuit class? Do you have experienced drysuit divers who mentor you? Or were you just trying to "wing" it on your own?

Your neck seals and wrist seals sound like they're too tight. Who trimmed them? Did that person have any experience with drysuits? It's unfortunate that the dive shop from which you made the purchase hasn't been helpful. At the very least, I would think that they could get the suit set up properly for you.

You didn't mention what part of your body was getting cold. If it's just your hands, then it's possible that your wrist seals are so tight that they're restricting blood flow to your hands. Properly trimmed, the seals should allow your hands to stay warmer. You described sweating a lot in the suit. You can definitely address this issue. First, you should minimize time spent between zipping up your drysuit and splashing into the water. Every diver in my circle of dive friends has a drysuit. We get all of our gear set up first and then synchronize the zipping up process with everyone else. No one likes roasting in a drysuit while waiting around for dive buddies. For shore diving on a warm day, we'll set up our gear under a sunshade or the natural shade of a tree. Second, minimize the amount of activity on the surface before beginning the dive. I'll fully acknowledge that there are limits to this. We do a lot of shore diving here in San Diego, so sweating during the surface kick out is just something we live with. Third, if you are going to sweat, manage the sweat in the best way possible. I would suggest that you try wearing polypro underwear beneath your Fourth Element undergarments to help wick that sweat away from your skin, which should keep you warmer.

Many factors influence how easy it is to manage the bubble inside the suit. For one thing, you can try to only add enough gas to the drysuit to offset squeeze and then add/subtract gas to the BCD as needed for buoyancy adjustments. Depending on your equipment configuration, this can be helpful at deeper depths, but I've found that with my single-tank rig at shallower depths (less than 40 fsw) the air to offset drysuit squeeze is just about enough for achieving neutral buoyancy. This is very much a trial-and-error thing. You'll just have to see what works for you.

Other important factors which influence the learning curve include proper fit and appropriate weighting. I'm going to assume that you have the appropriate size Fusion suit. Are you 100% certain that you are properly weighted? Did you do a weight check at the surface (or at shallow depth) with a comfortable amount of air inside the suit and empty BCD? (And you remembered to compensate for any remaining gas in your tank at the time of the weight check, right?) Keep in mind that if you are over-weighted, you will have to compensate for that unnecessary weight with extra gas either inside the drysuit or inside the BCD. Making the bubble larger than it needs to be can make your job more difficult as a beginner drysuit diver, particularly during ascents.

It sounds like you've already made up your mind that a drysuit simply won't work for you. I'm sorry that we didn't get a chance to try to help you out sooner. It may have made a difference. FWIW, I've found that wetsuit divers who exhibit good buoyancy control and excellent horizontal trim generally have fewer problems with learning how to dive a drysuit.

If you are willing to give the drysuit one more shot, I'd recommend finding a good instructor. Perhaps divers in the Monterey area can suggest someone. I think there's a UTD instructor who's part of the SB community. Several people have had good things to say about his classes. His name is Don Chennavasin (ae3753).

Good luck selling your suit.

[Edited later: I forgot to submit this post which I had composed earlier (2 hours ago). I just saw tech3324's post above. We seem to be in agreement on several points.]
 
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I had all these problems when I got my DUI. Diving dry takes a good 40 dives to get right. Although it took me longer. As mentioned trim the seals, but in very small amounts. You can feel this just buy donning it on dry land. Neck seals should be tight but not uncomfortable wrists should be the same. A bit of talc and they should slide through.
The are various arguments for this but I think it's easier and safer to just add air into the suit to avoid squeeze. Keep it tight but not painfully so. Use your bc for bouyancy. When it's time to ascend, stop, open valve on the arm fully, dumping air from bc as required. As you ascend the air will vent automatically from your arm. It is a leap of faith and you need to be weighted correctly but it does work. Go for dive just to sort your weight out. You will need a lot more.
Patience and practise is required. But it is worth it. Where I live you don't have much choice the water is 4c at the moment!
If need be you could always do a course but you need to do dives just for the suit and keep them shallow.


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I believe tech3324 & Bubbletrubble addressed your post as well as anyone could, and they had the same thoughts I had. I am not an experienced DS diver, (4 dives total so far, no DS class). I have read some of the "horror" stories about going dry, but so far haven't had any issues at all. I was very carefull and persistent on trimming my seals for a "perfect fit", got an undergarment for wicking moisture and went slow and easy on my first dive. Maybe I'm lucky, but I have had zero issues in my first 4 dives. Trim, buoyancy/weighting were set on my second dive and I loved it. I Have a Fusion Bullet and use the MK2 undergarment. Here's a photo of my first dive in my suit taken by sibermike7, who was a great help in getting me through my first dive.
IMG009.jpg
 
Wet with sweat: you're essentially sealed in a plastic bag, so sweat has nowhere to go. As others have mentioned, a wicking base layer is key. I'm a fan of UA, but Patagonia and others make similar garments. It'll wick the sweat away from your skin so you feel dry, even when your undergarment is a bit damp.

Undergarment: the Xerotherm is not a whole lot of insulation. I dive the 4th Element Arctic garment and am warm down to around 50° F. Keep in mind that if you let the suit squeeze you, the undies will loose some of their insulating properties.

Henrik
 
Just dove a whites fusion for the first time in december, was my first drysuit dive, I loved it so much I bought on the next day from the guy that lent me the demo suit. I wore an underarmor layer, polypro long john, fleece ski suit and then the mk2 in 40 degree water, everything was toasty warm except my hands (mares 6.5 wet gloves). With a whites I found you should not have any bubble to manage, I was told (in my dry crash course) to keep a 10 foot squeeze, or about the amount of squeeze you get going from the surface to 10 feet. any time i went wonky and notice a bubble moving around, I vented to get the squeeze back and was fine again. I had to use a little air in my BC to compensate for the beast of an overfilled 121, but I took to it just fine. My instructor/mentor got my weighting near perfect on the first dive(25lbs with SS BP), though i didn't get distribution for trim right until the 3rd. They also told me it takes 40-50 dives in a drysuit to really become proficient and comfortable with it, so I wouldn't give up just yet.


Edit: wicking is doubly important because you dont have just sweat, but soon as you jump in cold water, you get condensation in your suit as well if there was any humidity in the air)
 
sfdiver140, you are not the only diver I've talked to, who thought about giving up diving when they went from wet to dry! A dry suit is a challenge, and every problem you've listed is a dry suit problem, not a Fusion problem. BubbleTrubble has a superb post above, and I heartily second his advice to contact Don. I think your seals need trimming, you probably need different undergarments, and you just need some coaching and some patience to learn how to manage your suit.

A dry suit will never give you the thoughtless, three dimensional freedom of a wetsuit -- but an accomplished dry suit diver can assume any position he wishes in the water. I dive occasionally with Uncle Pug, who is well known for doing his ascents on his back, and assuming a straight head-down position to take photographs :)
 
I will use the HATE word...I hate the pockets on my Fusion Tech Skin LE. They suck! The flap is too soft and I can not feel it with my dry gloves, and the pockets sag big time (Constantly have to pull them up). Plus they are stretchy and tend to flop open allowing my gear to fall out. Then my buddies are laughing at me telling me to clean up. I resolved much of my left pocket fall out by changing how my bungee is tied in and made a small loop off the main loop that keeps my surface safety gear in the back of the pocket (Storm Whistle, car key, Dive Alert, and signal mirror).

I find getting out of the Fusion hard, not getting into it. The feet and ankles are tight. FWIW I am 165 lbs and 5' 11", so I am pretty skinny. With thick socks, fleece base layer, 400g DUI undies and booties I can not pull the feet off of me. Instead I have learned to pull the leg of the 400g undies up (Out from tucked into the booties), then I can remove my feet fairly easily. The legs being tight is probably a good thing, since I can easily invert with no ballon legs, nor having the feet fall out of my fins.

Made it about 30 dives before going dry. I used to have a trilam dry suit, then switched to an old EOD suit which is a CF200. It lasted for hundreds of dives (In the closet now as a backup), and I probably have at least 75 dives on my Fusion.

The Fusion is not as easy to vent as my old DUI, but it does okay. I prefer Turbo Soles, but Chuck Taylors work fine. Maybe with the Bullet Skin I would be happier.
 
Well, the pockets on the Bullet skin seem better to me than what you are describing -- the tab on them makes it fairly easy to identify the flap. I haven't accessed anything in my pockets yet, so I don't know how well that will go. But the Bullet skin will make getting in and out of the suit harder. I can't BELIEVE what a thrash getting dressed and undressed is now, compared with when I was using the Sport skin with the X-shorts.

Did you buy your Fusion before they changed the cut on the bag? I'm seriously considering going to the Whites demo day here and seeing if I can try one of the new bags, because at this point, I'm ready to get rid of the Bullet skin.
 
Hi Lynn,

What is the problem with the Bullet skin? Is it just too tight in the legs? I have been diving the tech skin for a couple years and was just about to upgrade to the Bullet, but your comments have me a little concerned.

Jim
 
Umm . . . 13-dive Fusion newbie here. I get cold easily, so I don't sweat.

The bubble management is interesting, but not insurmountable. My seals don't fit, but they are untrimmed and I have small wrists. I have no problem getting in as long as the seals are powdered.

All in all, there isn't anything wrong with the suit that cannot be traced to diver configuration or error. I don't think you want to hear that, but I have heard the "25 dives to get comfortable in a dry suit" and I have to say I agree that is the minimum number.

Find someone that will help you with your fit. Bubbletrubble hit it on the money. Dive the suit a few more times.
 

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