White's fusion?

[ScubaFeenD]

I think the self donning is more a reference to the front zip position, but I could be wrong.

Again, a rear zip can *potentially* reduce mobility. Dry zippers aren't exactly pliable objects. Having it run right across the back of your shoulders certainly isn't going to increase your range of motion.

I've been fine with mine, but I know others who have had issues.

In any case, my point is, GUE does not *require* a front zip suit.

It can also apparently be a failure point due to strain on the zipper (from gear and bending your arms), and minimizing failure points (especially with expensive gear) is usually best for the diver and the team.

 

[Rainer]

I think the self donning is more a reference to the front zip position, but I could be wrong.

I don't think there's any reference even to self-donning in the GUE S&P, so it's really a moot point.

It can also apparently be a failure point due to strain on the zipper (from gear and bending your arms), and minimizing failure points (especially with expensive gear) is usually best for the diver and the team.

Extremely weak argument, IMO. A diagonal front zip is harder to install than a straight rear zip. The chance of failure seems at least as high due to that factor. In any case, my rear zip suit hasn't needed zipper replacements any sooner than those with front zips (my own front zip suits included).

 

[RTee]

I would venture that perhaps what he meant to say was that with a front zipper, if you do experience a zipper failure underwater, in all likelihood you will still flood the suit but as long as you stay horizontal your suit should still retain some amount of air. With a back zipper type, as soon as the zipper goes , air will be leaking upward and outward.

 

[Rainer]

That just isn't how zipper failures work (having seen and had a few).

 

[ScubaFeenD]

I would venture that perhaps what he meant to say was that with a front zipper, if you do experience a zipper failure underwater, in all likelihood you will still flood the suit but as long as you stay horizontal your suit should still retain some amount of air. With a back zipper type, as soon as the zipper goes , air will be leaking upward and outward.

That was mentioned as a reason too, thanks for highlighting that.

I don't think there's any reference even to self-donning in the GUE S&P, so it's really a moot point.

Really? You know what does? The Dry suit class powerpoint, and so do other class powerpoints for that matter.

Extremely weak argument, IMO. A diagonal front zip is harder to install than a straight rear zip. The chance of failure seems at least as high due to that factor. In any case, my rear zip suit hasn't needed zipper replacements any sooner than those with front zips (my own front zip suits included).

OK, weak argument in your opinion. I understood it to mean that if you reach across your body you are putting strain on the zipper especially if it doesnt fit great. Further, you are resting all your gear on your back, and having gear lay on and potentially move against an exposed zipper can be problematic. But hey, maybe I just misunderstood.

Fact of the matter is that GUE recommends self donning front zip style dry suits. If you dont have it you wont be ejected from a GUE class or be told you are not DIR, etc, but it is a recommendation they make. If someone asks what is DIR and what GUE standards are and what GUE recommends you shouldnt really pick and choose what you think is important to stress.

 

[ScubaFeenD]

That just isn't how zipper failures work (having seen and had a few).

Even if your N=5 ( which I think is a lot of catastrophic zipper failures), is that really enough to speak authoritatively on dry suit zipper failures? I think not.

 

[Rainer]

Even if your N=5 ( which I think is a lot of catastrophic zipper failures), is that really enough to speak authoritatively on dry suit zipper failures?

Lol, again, you do realize GUE clearly doesn't think this is a safety issue, right? That's why there's no GUE standard on zipper placement...

I think not.

Bad life philosophy.

 

[Rainer]

Fact of the matter is that GUE recommends self donning front zip style dry suits. If you dont have it you wont be ejected from a GUE class or be told you are not DIR, etc, but it is a recommendation they make. If someone asks what is DIR and what GUE standards are and what GUE recommends you shouldnt really pick and choose what you think is important to stress.

Since you didn't bother to read what I wrote, I'll repeat. There is NO GUE standard about zipper placement. There is a GUE recommendation for front zip, which is EXACTLY what I recommended as well.

 

[ScubaFeenD]

Lol, again, you do realize GUE clearly doesn't think this is a safety issue, right? That's why there's no GUE standard on zipper placement...

I guess that depends on how long of a dive you are doing and how cold the water is. Suit floods can be dangerous if in unordinarily cold water or on unordinarily long dives.

Since you didn't bother to read what I wrote, I'll repeat. There is NO GUE standard about zipper placement. There is a GUE recommendation for front zip, which is EXACTLY what I recommended as well.

I dont think I ever said it was a standard, but I am glad to see you are on board with the recommendations

 

[Rainer]

I guess that depends on how long of a dive you are doing and how cold the water is. Suit floods can be dangerous if in unordinarily cold water or on unordinarily long dives.

Which needs to be addressed regardless of what zipper type you have. Seeing as they both seem to fail about the same (which is thankfully very infrequently), I'll continue to plan my dives around this possibility.